Where do I stand here? Landlords, tenants, any advice welcome!!

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I rent a flat and have done for the last 5 years. It’s a block of 10 and I’m right in the middle. No issues, everyone gets on fine but my upstairs neighbours have been a nightmare on and off for the duration that I’ve lived here. Don’t get me wrong, we get on okay but it’s been hard sometimes. Anyway, I’ll get to my problem - it is an elderly couple who live above me with their son and 3 grandchildren. Grandchildren are all above age 11 (I think) but do suffer with some mental health problems/disabilities. For the last 5 years the kids have been sticking wet wipes/sanitary products down the toilet which have resulted in many blockages. The man hole is in my garden directly outside my living room and when it’s blocked the smell travels into my flat. I don’t even have to look to see if it’s blocked as I can always tell just by the smell

Whenever this has happened I’ve called the water company and they have sorted it out. (If I don’t ring it doesn’t get sorted btw - apparently before I moved in the garden was overflowing as nobody had bothered to report it). The last couple of times it’s happened the drain (for the whole block) has been blocked and they’ve sorted it out fine and just sent out letters to remind everyone not to stick things like that down the toilet. I did ask them if they could send a letter specifically to my upstairs neighbour as we knew it was them causing the problem but they aren’t allowed to single people out. This time they’ve had a look and it’s just the drain that my upstairs neighbour and I use so it’s classed as a private issue. I’ve rang my landlady and she’s said she can’t afford to sort it out as she’s been out of work for the last year or so due to covid (not that I would expect her to pay for it anyway as I really don’t think it’s her fault). She’s contacted the neighbours to tell them to sort it out and they’ve said they will look into but not necessarily fix it. I’m just waiting to hear back. I’m hoping they won’t be awkward about it as they have been previously with other issues (their shower room was leaking into my bathroom last year and they denied it had anything to do with them at first until they were forced to sort it out).

What happens if they come back and say they can’t afford to fix it or just completely deny its them that’s caused the problem? Does the responsibility fall to my landlady? There is no proof that it’s them although it’s pretty obvious as there is 6 of them and only me in my flat. I don’t want to fall out with them but it’s a reoccurring issue and it’s really starting to piss me off as I’m the one that has to live with the smell and ring around to sort it out otherwise it just gets left. I feel incredibly sorry for the grandparents being left with a hefty bill but hopefully this will get the message across finally!!

Sorry for the long rambling post, I'm on one today!! Also, if they accept it's their fault and agree to fix it how long am I suppose to wait? Surely this is an emergency? My flat currently stinks!!

I would be putting pressure on your landlord to sort it.

Though if she hasn’t the means to, then I’d look at options for moving out if I’m I honest.

You cannot possibly know who is causing the issue unless the water company are certain...drains are old, they rust, collapse etc.

I had a blockage and was certain it was my neighbour. The water company came out and they found three blockages and they were not connected to my neighbour in any way...my water company said they would fix it if caused by us but we would get a bill if they could find out what/who was causing it.

Are you sure your experience in the past with them isn't colouring your judgement?

Though I also found out my drain doesn't link to any neighbours and so it was just an issue with mine (not caused by me) - have the water people confirmed for definite it's just you and them?

It's a health hazard if left and could back up and cause sewage to come into your home so I would sort it and work out who should pay depending on what they find if I were you. If it's your flat then it's your landlady - if it's theirs then it's theirs. If both then they will have to split it.

Just don't wait until you have poo coming into your plug hole - it happens.

I'd be pressuring the landlord to get it sorted too, it's up to her to get the neighbours to pay their share, not you. It is an emergency - I presume you can't use the toilet because it's all just backing up? Perhaps suggest to the landlord she speaks to her insurance company?

Contact your council’s environmental health department. They should be able to give you advice on who is legally responsible. Good luck.

Here's some guidance about shared drains.

We shared a sewer drain with our neighbour and were told that the responsibility had transferred to the water company, but reading the above that likely it because our drain happens to be publicly owned. It ultimately is the responsibility of your landlord to try and deal with it.

the only remedy landlords have for tenant behaviour is eviction, which is currently taking up to 18 months. If these people are also tenants of your landlady, that's all she can do. If they aren't, or are owner occupiers, there is nothing she can do except possibly take them to court for the damage.

the adults in the house need to supervise extremely closely to stop this revolting behaviour. (Although many adults with no learning disabilities cannot differentiate between a toilet and a bin, as proved by many London fatbergs)

her lack of money is no excuse, if her business is not viable then tough.

sadly, and it isn't easy especially not at the moment - there's only one remedy if you have skanky neighbours and that is to move. At least you haven't the bother of selling.

I am sorry, in a world where a billion have no access to a toilet, behaviour like this is revolting.

This is completely down to your landlady to sort out. She can speak to environmental health, consult her building insurance, deal with the water company - it's her job. If she doesn't then you contacting environmental health might be of some use.

@Royalbloo water company have confirmed it is definitely a shared drain just for upstairs neighbour and I and not the whole block this time

You know when landlords talk how tenants have the better end of the deal because they don't have the responsibility of sorting problems out, they pay their rent and that's that? You've paid your landlady rent for 5 years and this is her responsibility to sort out.

I wouldn't mind normally, these things happen but I reported it this morning before I went to work and it's still not sorted!

We are landlords, I would be speaking to my insurance company. I am almost certain that we pay for legal cover.
As lon as it can be proved beyond doubt that your neighbours are responsible for the drain issue, a legal letter might focus their attention

@unmarkedbythat yes very good point. I'm too nice/patient for my own good. We get on well but she's always been a bit like this! When I had the leak in my bathroom from the neighbours shower room it went on for 2 months because she refused to pay to sort it out as it was their fault. She doesn't like to pay for things because she thinks she won't get the money back so she'll just wait until they get off their arse and sort it which is very frustrating for me!

I'll give my landlady another call now to see what's going on!

I'm a landlord. My own financial position doesn't impact on my tenants. My tenants had a drain issue last year. Even though we were skint (and living in another country!) we got it fixed straight away, including hiring a cleaning company and reducing their rent for the week when there was so much disruption.
Our tenants pay their rent. We sort out the problems with the house.

Your landlord needs to sort this out.

Wait to hear back from your landlady and keep on her case - she has income from you and responsibilities to you and your home needs to be useable and healthy whether she's lost her job during Covid. Speak to your neighbours above and ask if they can train their son/gcs to put things in a covered bin. It's amazing how many people don't realize what you should NOT be putting in the loo. Facewipes are pretty bad.

Keep a log and photos (though you can't photograph a smell). Council's environmental health officer might advise - presumably the foul water run off goes somewhere which with faecal matter could be causing health problems elsewhere.

But are your upstairs owner/occupiers or renting? If they own, it's harder.

This is absolutely horrible for you, and I would not be at all 'nice' about it but insist that your flat is becoming uninhabitable due to the smell and you are concerned that sewerage will back up the pipe so it is an emergency plumber job ASAP.

And that if nothing is done you might need to move out to a hotel or call the emergency plumber yourself, for which you would be seeking her to reimburse you, by means of non-payment of rent if necessary.

No need to feel sorry for her that she's been out of work. She rents a property out she has to have contingency money for costs.

Your landlady isn't responsible for fixing a drain if the neighbours are the ones blocking it, however I would expect her to deal with the water company and the neighbours to resolve the situation.

It is your landlords responsibility to sort, not yours.

To be honest (and I say this as a small landlord myself), evictions for non payment of rent are not happening at the minute. I would report it to her every time, and if the landlady doesn't fix it, instruct the water company, pay the bill and deduct it from your rent. I'm not sure what the legal ramifications are off the top of my head- I'm sure there's some sort of ruling that says in an emergency you can pay and the landlord reimburses you, but I could be wrong. But either way, it would take forever to evict you, she will in no way want to search for a tenant now, and even if she does do so in a year, do you want to be living in a smelly flat?

I'm a landlord. It is your landlord's job to sort this, one way or another. She doesnt get to take rent from you then say she's got no money to fulfill her obligations.

Your landlady's employment status is irrelevant; you're still paying rent. At least if she's not working she's got more time to research who is liable and take things up with the neighbours/their landlord. If, technically, the problem could come from either flat, splitting the cost between the two owners might make sense.

This is absolutely your landlord’s problem. I know you feel sorry for her but let’s face it, she could sell the flat if she was that hard up. If I were you I would tell her the problem is getting to the point where it is making you consider moving out and renting else where.

@crosstalk they own their property

Well then they have to sort it. When I asked the water "blokes" they said people ignore this stuff all the time and then their homes get flooded with pop - up to 5 inches he said was fairly usual so I'd get everything off the floor!!!