To ask people to tell everyone they know NOT TO FEED HORSES THAT DON’T BELONG TO THEM

[YeahBabyYeahYeah]

I won’t post the article as it made me cry and may be more triggering for others, but the most beautiful pony is in the papers today. He died because someone ignored “do not feed” signs and fed him a fucking potato.

Why oh why do some people (who in this case clearly know fuck-all about horses if they are feeding them whole potatoes) think it is OK to feed other people’s animals without their permission?

AIBU to think there should be more awareness about this, especially with more people going for walks at the moment. It is never OK to feed a horse unless the owner tells you it is OK and approves the food.

@TheBuffster

That is a truly terrible suggestion. It shows complete ignorance of horse husbandry. Which is expected and perfectly fine if you don’t have responsibility for the welfare of any horses. But, that does mean that you should not be interfering with other people’s livestock, about which you have no knowledge. It’s called common decency. And behaving responsibly.

For a start, there is no horse who should be fed a bucket full of treats every day. Many are on sparse grazing for a reason and lots of extras treats could cause serious harm of death. Even those that are not prone to laminitis of colic etc, should not be fed lots of treats. It’s not good for them.

Secondly, constant feeding over the fence etc causes then to associate people with treats. This leads to behavioural problems- aggression, biting etc. This is dangerous for owners, anyone entering their field, or indeed the idiots who are feeding them when they should not be. It can also lead to fights between horses, running the risk of injury.

Would those so keen to feed the horse “because it’s nice” be happy to take the blame for the harm they cause? Or equally keen to meet any costs that are the consequences of their actions? I seriously doubt they’d care enough. Or it would never be their fault-oh no- I’d be the owners fault for not having a sign, or not having the right sort of sign, or not having the right information on the sign. Or having a horse grazing in a field they could get to. Or not providing (for free) feed that is not dangerous. Or some such nonsense.

If I like your car, does that entitle me to just take it for a drive? Of course not.

I like children. And most children like sweets and crisps and chocolate. But I don’t then think it’s acceptable to wander up to random children I come across and let them stuff themselves with as much of it as they fancy. Or even to give them “ healthy” snacks. It would be inappropriate. Most parents would be unhappy, or even furious- understandably. Or perhaps I can just let myself into the gardens or houses of people who have dogs and give them dog biscuits or pigs ears etc? It’s the same principle.

I think many people need to recognise that just because they WANT to do something, it is doesn’t mean they are entitled to do it. And if you do something you aren’t supposed to do, then you ought to bear the consequences of that.

@TheBuffster

You can ask MNHQ to delete your posts on this thread and any replies to them if they are distressing you.

Best wishes to you

Can I feed them grass?

Probably best to double fence in materials that people can't get over or through easily (or at all). Pricey but ...

You won't stop people being twats.

Oh, @thebuffster, and an unmumsnetty hug, you must feel horrendous.

I recognise it's easy for me to say but please don't hate yourself...and try not to blame yourself. Are you getting treatment for your pnd?

What if they think saying Don't feed the horses is enough? Because it fucking should be. In fact, you shouldn't even need a sign

If it were enough people wouldn’t still be feeding the horses though.

You think the sign is enough (or unnecessary) and I agree in theory; but clearly it isn’t working. So what’s the next step?

I strongly believe if you want to change peoples behaviour you need to understand why they’re doing it first. And I mean really see from their perspective, not assume they’re thick or malicious.

a family decided not only to walk on the horse path, but to encourage (!) their small dd to go and pet the pony while he was trying to do an impression of a 17hh stallion in the starting gates of the Grand National. My yell of 'get her back for godsake' was not appreciated

While I have some empathy for this, people do get confused over which path is a footpath/bridlepath/cycle path etc.
I would have shouted something like ‘please get off the bridleway, my horse is out of control!’ as soon as I saw them. Followed by ‘get back NOW!’ if they froze. It’s amazing how many people try to pet horses that are clearly unhappy or panicking! I’m sure the parents in your situation were just clueless as who wants to risk their kid getting hurt?

It’s like some people who sab trail hunts, they go right up to nervous excited horses, dangling a decoy whip, then complain you’re ‘using your horse as a weapon’ when horse swings round and kicks them or barges past and knocks them into a ditch. Again it comes down to people knowing nothing about horses as I’m sure nobody wants to be kicked, trampled or knocked over.

I haven't called anyone thick, and the poster you refer to, well yes seeing as they came on with the 'posh owners ticking people off' attitude, didn't ask any questions, just got stuck in with the stereotype and then didn't like it when it was passed back to them. And basically blamed horse owners

I wasn’t referring to you personally, sorry if it came across that way. There have been so many insults thrown about on this thread I’ve lost track of who said what, but a number of posters were calling people thick, stupid etc for daring to ask questions eg if they could give a horse a handful of grass from next to the fence.

The post I was referring to wasn’t one stereotyping or blaming horse owners, it was the lady who asked if giving a handful of grass picked from near the fence was safe. She asked politely and a lot of people ridiculed her and called her names for asking. I don’t think that was called for, nor does it help change the negative stereotype for the rest of us.

I think with that kind of situation the media is partly to blame. If you watch any horsey film or cartoon at some point you'll see a distressed horse, someone will walk up and give it a quick pat and it immediately calms down.

If you're horsey you know that's a load of nonsense. If you're not, it might lead you to believe that's the way to behave around horses and not perceive the danger in getting close to an unhappy horse.

Equally, they obviously didn't understand horse body language. Why would they if they're not horsey?

I've had non-horsey friends laugh at horses sticking their ears back and I've had to pull them out the way before they got bitten.

My issue is the back chat, abuse and excuses you get when you ask people to please not do something and explain why.

@HikeForward

What if they think saying Don't feed the horses is enough? Because it fucking should be. In fact, you shouldn't even need a sign

If it were enough people wouldn’t still be feeding the horses though.

You think the sign is enough (or unnecessary) and I agree in theory; but clearly it isn’t working. So what’s the next step?

I strongly believe if you want to change peoples behaviour you need to understand why they’re doing it first. And I mean really see from their perspective, not assume they’re thick or malicious.

A sign should be enough. If people wanted to be educated they could look it up on the internet.

Just look at what people are saying on this thread that they are told when approaching people feeding their horses. A lot of the time it's not education. It's entitlement. Taking a few of the comments from this thread alone, people have shouted that they won't be told what to do by posh cunts, or have been outright lied to "the owner said it was ok" while speaking to the owner who they clearly have never spoken to. Or it's only a carrot, what's the harm etc.

It's entitlement. To feed an animal that isn't yours, and you know nothing about is entitlement. If people are so keen to feed a horse, track down the owner and ask. Just because you want to do something doesn't make it ok. And just for clarity I mean "you" in the wider sense rather than you personally.

It isn't up to the owners, and neither it should be, to educate others. It's not the owners responsibility to educate or inform people of the reasons why there is a do not feed the horses sign. We don't expect dog owners to have signs on their gardens explaining why not to feed treats.

I have severe pnd because my son has cp. Please could you leave me out of further discussion because having complete strangers confirm I am stupid doesn’t help

I’m so sorry you’ve been treated so badly on this thread. I can’t remember everything you posted but I remember reading one of your posts and thinking it was very sensible and interesting (in contrast to the rudeness of so many others, and I hope they’re ashamed of themselves!)

You are not stupid. Please please don’t think that. And don’t let strangers make you think that either.

I hope you’re getting proper treatment for your PND and see the light on the other side soon. It’s a terrible illness but it’s treatable. When I had PND I also used MN as a distraction and an outlet and got into some heated debates, so you have my deepest sympathy. Wishing you well 💐

My issue is the back chat, abuse and excuses you get when you ask people to please not do something and explain why.

Yes, that's my issue too. The lack of knowledge isn't, the attitudes I've been met with and the audacity of people to tell owners to mind their own business, or call them names.
If it were genuinely based in welfare, then they'd listen, but unfortunately some people don't like to find out they're wrong, no matter how nicely you point it out.
I had a laminitic greedy Shetland 'back in the day' for my DD. He was a Houdini as well and so the fences were bloomin good because if they weren't he was out and could you hell as like catch him. The yard I was at at the time had a visit from the rscpa regarding a pony being starved, and he wore a muzzle during the day, off at night. They visited, spoke to the yo, who gave them my details and the general overview. They saw said pony, spoke to me and the vet and went away happy.
I hold absolutely no malice to that person, they were concerned, it wasn't malicious because the report was only made once (I'm not sure if the RSPCA give feedback or not) and they did the right thing by reporting it to someone who does know what they're talking about.
The others that took it upon themselves to remove his muzzle and feed him, allowing him free access to the grass (sparse as it was) I have an issue with, he spent another 2 weeks on box rest and I got to pay out for another vet visit and more medication.
And I had a sign up too. No it didn't detail every possible outcome from removing his muzzle and feeding him, it asked politely for people to leave him alone because he was recuperating from illness.
As another poster said, I'm always happy to talk horses, it's one of the things my non horsey family and friends complain about in fact! But my experience tells me that many people don't want to know, they don't want to listen about how what they're doing can be harmful. They just want to do it.
I don't know the answer to this, I really don't.

Can I feed them grass?

Personally I wouldn't want you to feed my horse grass, especially from the side of the field or grass verge etc. I monitor my horses field for poisonous plants, there may be some in the grass you pick to feed, or it may have been sprayed with something. I could then end up with a sick horse and no idea what's wrong with it, which takes longer to diagnose and treat for the vet, putting the horse in danger.

And hand feeding can cause issues, horses can and often do, fight over a food source. By feeding them grass, or anything, not in a controlled environment, you become that food source. They can start to argue with each other and you can get caught in the crossfire, or they can injure each other. Hand feeding also encourages some horses to bite, I don't hand feed mine for that reason. I've taught him not to bite, but people feeding him anything from the hand undoes that training, because effectively they're teaching him that the behaviour gets a reward.
The horse may also have issues with teeth that means only short grass is suitable, or is on restricted grazing for health reasons. One handful of long grass could choke the former, and several people doing it can cause health issues for the latter.

So no, it's best not to unless you've got the owners permission.

It’s also like when I get asked constantly if someone’s child can have a ride on DD’s pony then get shitty when I say no

A woman in the next village (who had never been particularly friendly) rang me to ask if her young grandchildren could ride my horses when they came down from London. They were about 5 and 9 at the time and had never had a riding lesson. I said no, they aren't really that type of pony, but there's a really good riding school about 25 mins drive away. She literally could not get her head around the fact that I said no. "But your children ride them!" - my children have been riding since they could walk. "But my grandchildren will be so disappointed!" - sorry, try the riding school. In the end she put the phone down after a frosty "goodbye". Unbelievable.

A sign should be enough

It isn’t though is it?

It isn't up to the owners, and neither it should be, to educate others. It's not the owners responsibility to educate or inform people of the reasons why there is a do not feed the horses sign

I agree no owner ‘should’ have to explain or educate or even put up a sign. In theory. But clearly a lot of people feed horses and put them in danger, so if the owner takes no action their horses remain at risk.

Owning a horse is a huge responsibility and dealing with people who interfere with horses is sadly part of it.

Whether people feed them through ignorance or entitlement, they need to be stopped somehow. Education stops some (as proven by this thread) as for the others I’m not sure. All I can think of is double fencing, electric outer fencing, signs warning of fines or CCTV or explaining the consequences of disobeying the do not feed signs.

I don’t have horses these days, but if I did I’d explore every avenue to keep them safe.

I also have to say that the vast majority of people are absolutely lovely and genuine. Dd is often stopped by people admiring her horse when she's hacking, lots of people ask if they can pat them (of course, if I am there), they often ask after them. It's just a few idiots.

I don’t have horses these days, but if I did I’d explore every avenue to keep them safe

That's a good idea. Must try that.

@HikeForward what do you suggest though? My 3 are now on private land, in a field that can only be accessed by going through two locked gates and down a drive, then through another locked gate to the side. There is a 10ft wide drive between their outer field fence (they are double fenced with an outer permanent and an inner electric) and the boundary hedge which is also fenced, and has a windbreak of trees alongside it. You will, having had horses, understand the importance of vehicular access for horse lorries, muck removal, field maintenance machinery, forage deliveries. That creates a weak point.

We still have people on the footpath behind the hedge throwing food through the hedge, have caught people in the field with them, and have had people's dogs get in and chase them.

Because of the shitty entitled inconsiderate behaviour displayed by people on that path during lockdown I have had to put them in their winter paddock which is behind 10ft walls and a locked door, at the back of the property far earlier than I normally would, so that is absolutely trashed now, I'm using double the hay I should be needing and it'll be a bastard to repair come spring. Horses are also bored.

And even THAT doesn't stop people trying to get in (there's a 5 bar gate at the bottom of the walled bit leading on to the private garden of the man whose fields I rent) - they trespass on the next door property and try to climb into ours. (One said 'oh i got lost after climbing through the fence into the cow field - er if you have to climb through the fence did that not give you a clue that it wasn't somewhere you should be?)

Short of keeping them in a hermetically sealed box, how exactly can I make sure that people can't get at my horses?

Thank you for answering my question @Maverickess

I'll confess this thread has been eye opening I would never have fed a horse any food but I would always grab a handful of nearby grass but I won't now!

I did encounter one family though, who asked, very politely, if their children could come in to pet my horses over the gate, and who took it very well when I said 'I would love to say yes but unfortunately I don't live here and this is private, it's someone else's home, so I can't invite you in'. So not everyone is entitled.

@whydobirds exactly, what are we meant to do when we've tried being nice, tried education, tried moving them to be less accessible and people still don't behave responsibly?

I asked some teenagers to leave our field a few weeks ago and pointed out it was private property. "We didn't know" was the response. They blinked at me like goldfish when I said that as they'd had to trapse through woodland and climb through barbed wire to get into the field it obviously wasn't a footpath.

5 out of the 7 fields at our yard are accessible via a footpath but apparently even when we move them to fields that aren't a public right of way people still get in there.

And you know, I'm happy for others to take enjoyment from my horses, when it is possible and appropriate. Happy to talk to kids about them, introduce them, show them how to say hello (if able to get close). Happy to have dds friends down to ride the pony and groom the others where safe and if approved by the man who lives there. Happy to teach people how to handle/be around my Iberian nimrod safely. Just not happy for people to assume they can do what they want.

You can't teach stupid...

Our old mare (well from quite young really) had laminitis and other known ailments...

Even people who were apparantly knowledgeable (and worryingly had their own)

• moved her from bare paddock into field with full lush grass (because she was pawing the ground and wanted to be out - No shit I would too if I was on a strict diet but it could kill her)

• filled up extra haynets - because she was door banging and hadn't been fed today - erm yes she was at 7am, ate her food and now wants more by 9am...

• fed all sorts of shit - because she asked for it...

Honestly educating stupid is hard.

We laminated a sign and put it on her door saying

STOP - Do not feed me
I am on a limited diet on instructions of the vet.
Whether I door bang, paw the ground or shout as you pass - the answer is no.
YOU could kill me...

And yes some people still ignored it!!