Recommendations - aggressive Piano playing neighbour and work from home

[Flowersbee]

Hi all
We live in a block with tiny 2 bed flats. The neighbour above me was playing for 3-6 hours a day - usually 2-3 hours in daytime and again 2-3 hours between 5-8pm.

I spoke in a friendly way after a few weeks of them moving in and took a cake explaining I work from home and asking politely for him to use headphones or other suggestions. In that initial friendly chat, He refused but said he wouldn’t play during the day as I explained I use noise cancelling headphones for work and can still hear the piano. I am on calls with clients and a number have complained asking if I can turn down my radio but it also impacts my ability to concentrate on my job.
My neighbour reduced it down a few days then amped up again. When I went to speak to him and mentioned that he had agreed to not play in the day he shouted at me saying “I can play when I like and you can’t stop me.” Amongst many other rants. He and his family are new to the country and I said will he tone down if the council explain the rules around noise disturbance he said he doesn’t care about the council or rules as he knows they have to prove it with a noise device and they can’t (due to Covid the council are not entering homes - I didn’t know that until he was shouting). He was very aggressive and has left me feeling very fearful. My flat is worst impacted due to being below his but the neighbours above him have also complained. As I work from home during Covid (and now DD does schoolwork from home) I am concerned about my job as now as soon as the piano starts my concentration disappears (incl when I wear headphones).

I have asked my landlord for help and they have spoken to his agent who said he reduced his noise by half and placed a carpet beneath the piano plus cardboard boxes (from 5/6 hours to 3 hours a day) however this still does not make a difference. I suggested Max an hour a day during these times or using headphones and he obviously refused

It is always in the daytime as he has 2 young kids. I feel there is no chance for any peace as during the day I work until late and then the piano is played until my DD bedtime again, which she has complained keeps her awake. I am too terrified to approach the neighbour again after he became agggressive (with his wife standing next to him) and they have 2 young kids. I am a non conflict person in my personal life and now too afraid to speak to them again.
We are very quiet and considerate neighbours, get on with all the flats - for the first time I have started to dream of making a noise to wake their kids but I don’t want to live like that - I simply want to do my job and have an hour of peace in the evening with my child. For my work if I could work out of home I would however now my DD also has to be home as schools are closed. I have also asked my council however all their noise services are suspended and they cannot assist. I do maintain a log however as I cannot afford a lawyer and the council noise services are not working they have said there is nothing they can do.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is my only choice to move? In the meantime any suggestions for managing the noise as am starting to worry about my mental health as am getting upset . I can’t walk around with noise cancelling headphones on the whole day - partly as amazingly I still hear the piano noise but then can’t hear my DD. There are no rooms immune to the noise including the bathroom as the flats are tiny 2 bedrooms.

I am also a single mum and worried if I lose my job due to the current impact on my work.

Please can you make any recommendations as to something I may be able to do to help.

OP - he's aggressive because of you. You decided to make him aggressive.

I would love to have the simplicity of your life if your biggest worry is regarding a NDN pianist playing 5-8PM. That is daylight hours most of the year round.

If he has a proper piano of course headphones isn’t an option.

If he is using a digital piano A) I’m surprised it’s that loud but also B) he should wear headphones at times as it would make no difference to his practice.

I play piano and switched to a so-called silent piano (it’s a proper piano which can “go” digital) so as to not affect neighbours so much. But they’re v.expensive.

If his playing is in anyway related to his job I’m not sure you can win.

Check the terms of your lease OP. In a place we looked at there was a clause that was centered around use of instruments and potential disturbance. Keep complaining to his landlord too.

It's not a bloody competition @TrickorTreacle. Of course there are worse things to worry about but 6 hours of loud piano playing everyday which is effecting OPs work and her child's sleep, not to mention that she is sole earner in thier household, hardly a minor thing.

I suggest you write him a polite letter and try to agree on time when he will practice. At least that way you will know when to expect it and for how long which I expect would make it better psychologically. I don’t think saying zero practice between 8-5 is reasonable. Playing an instrument during daylight hours isnt antisocial behaviour. Maybe suggest two hours during the day and two in the evening?

How can he be so new to the country but also know that the council won't be entering homes to place noise devices?

I don't think he is being unreasonable. Get some headphones with a microphone attached and then your clients won't hear. He is playing the piano during normal waking hours. You can't demand max an hour a day any more than he could demand that you only work one hour a day.

I feel for you, OP, I really do. Having had noisy aggressive neighbours, I’m afraid my final solution was to move. The council came round, threatened to remove his devices and he still carried on, drugged up fucking arsehole. I sold my first flat due to his shit behaviour. The next door neighbour, in a big lovely house where they’d lived forever, also moved due to his noise. It should be severely punished, IMO. I can’t understand why people do this or why it isn’t an imprisonable offence.

In one of my rented flats, a piccolo player moved in-he was a concert player. He played against the wall, no idea why when he could have played on the other side upstairs (we were a downstairs flat). Utter wanker had the cheek to invite us to a concert so we played heavy metal at full volume to make a point. He moved his playing.

@Iwonder08

Someone who plays piano for 4-6 hours every day must be a concert level musician.

Or unemployed.

Noise abatement team at the council. Aggressive behaviour if you feel threatened is surely a matter for the police?

@Flowersbee

Thanks for all the replies I have followed up with my local councillor as well and pnot heard back yet.

@FoxyTheFox and @Iwonder08 - the council said they can’t enter homes and their services are suspended possibly until the end of the year. I do keep a log but don’t have the device.
I will chase the council again - even if they say they can’t help should I keep pushing them? Should I buy a noise device myself and measure it ?

I mentioned he is new in case different places have different rules (I have lived in London 20 plus years and also had to understand different neighbourhood rules compared to my home Country)

The EHO who deals with noise nuisance at my local council will issue warning letters if she gets a noise log and follow them up with a stronger letter if the complainant records it on their phone.

She says that she can''t go as far as issuing proceedings though, as it's thought that the evidence would be to easy to challenge in court.

I have a digital piano (and thankfully live in a detached house!) - obviously it's nicer to play without headphones but even so you can turn the volume down so you can hear it but can only faintly be heard even in the adjoining room in my own house (and knowing that nobody objects to it here). I could turn it down even more and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even hear that through a wall. It's anti-social to play all day at a volume others could hear - he could always arrange a "slot" when he can have it louder if that's particularly important for some reason.

We had this in a previous flat. Luckily for us the tenant was lovely, and she bought a sound absorbing mat of some sort to put under the piano. It didn't completely stop the sound, but it became manageable background noise.

I have a piano (upright, not digital) which has a built-in damper bar for practice, purchased many years ago precisely for this reason as we were in a flat.
The make is a well-known one (I believe this make is in use in most music colleges, as practice room after practice room in close proximity would otherwise not work).
Ask if he’d be willing to switch to such an instrument while everyone is working from home and then see if you can find one going cheap...my local marketplace (Facebook) has hundreds of pianos being given away, so you might be able to find him one...

@Iwonder08

You mentioned he is new to this country, how is it relevant? Concert pianist immigrants are of course notoriously aggresive

As the OP said, he perhaps wasn't aware of the rules and restrictions around noise in the UK.

Ask if he’d be willing to switch to such an instrument while everyone is working from home and then see if you can find one going cheap...my local marketplace (Facebook) has hundreds of pianos being given away, so you might be able to find him one...

OP can't expect him to get rid of his piano and replace it with one she finds on Facebook or similar! If somebody suggested that I get rid of my piano which is a good quality one and replace it with some unknown piano from social media which I'd then need to pay to get tuned then I'd be telling them in no uncertain terms to jog on. Or maybe even to fuck off.

Don't be ridiculous, of course you can't complain to the council about someone playing the piano during the day. It's a perfectly normal activity during daylight hours.

Unfortunately if the noise of a piano being played not even in your flat means that your concentration instantly disappears it sounds like it is you that has a problem, as that is really not normal.

This sounds like a real piano, so headphones for him will not apply.

This is very disturbing for you. However he will be allowed, probably, at least 3 hours in the day he can play it.

Please contact the Council or your local councillor, to at least start some action.

@jgjgjgjgjg

Don't be ridiculous, of course you can't complain to the council about someone playing the piano during the day. It's a perfectly normal activity during daylight hours.

Unfortunately if the noise of a piano being played not even in your flat means that your concentration instantly disappears it sounds like it is you that has a problem, as that is really not normal.

Piano (or keyboard) noise from above is really, really disruptive - like any constant noise you don't have control over! - especially when it's for hours a day.

I have asked my landlord for help and they have spoken to his agent who said he reduced his noise by half and placed a carpet beneath the piano plus cardboard boxes (from 5/6 hours to 3 hours a day) however this still does not make a difference. I suggested Max an hour a day during these times or using headphones and he obviously refused

If he's halved his playing time and taken steps to reduce the noise, are you really sure the council will think he is the one BU?

YABU.I sympathise with your neighbour, playing the piano for 3 hours a day is not at all unreasonable.

If you are so sensitive to noise go and get yourself some noise cancelling headphones that actually work and buy your daughter some ear plugs for when she goes to bed.

Honestly, part of the problem you're coming up against is the laws were written at a time when almost no one was impacted whilst working. The entire law on noise nuisance is designed to only work for people who work 9-5 jobs, sleep 11-7 (the hours you have to be quiet) and in addition to this, most rental contracts say you're not actually allowed to work or run a business from home, so that wouldn't be grounds to get him to stop playing. Also, flats are classed as a residential area so unfortunately it would be U for them to stop him playing so you could work because he is also entitled to enjoyment of his home.
What really needs to happen, given how much this stuff has come up over the past year, is for the law to change.

Musicians, like lots of other people, are having to work from home at the moment so it may well be that he has limited choice over some of the hours he needs to play the piano e.g. if he's teaching remotely. Equally, his work shouldn't impact on your ability to do yours.

Do you know what sort of flooring is in the room where the piano is? Lots of flats have terms in the lease stating that hard flooring mustn't be installed so hopefully the piece of carpet his landlord supplied is in addition to the existing carpet. Whereabouts the piano is will have an impact too e.g. if it is up against a wall with a chimney breast, the sound is likely to be more noticeable than if it backs onto an internal wall that doesn't have an opening. There are a number of ways to reduce sound from pianos but, as others have said, it will depend on the type of piano he plays. An upright piano may be dampened by padding the wall it backs onto or even by hanging heavy wool blankets behind it. A digital piano can have its volume turned down and/or headphones used. The upstairs landlord might also want to look into having sound insulation installed although this is likely to be expensive.

Without wanting to minimise the upset this is causing you, I wonder if some of the issue now is that you are expecting to hear the piano and expecting complaints from clients about it? For it to sound to a client as though a radio is playing in the background of your calls, it suggests the sound insulation between the flats is very poor indeed or that both you and your neighbour both have windows open. It also suggests that your microphone isn't up to the job. Could your employer provide you with better equipment with which to do your job e.g. a more directional microphone? Do you think you would feel differently about the piano playing if you weren't worrying about clients hearing it? Or if it wasn't piano playing but dancing, loud gaming (shouting at virtual opponents), Radio 4 playing etc.?