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Original poster

Accident. Who's at fault

165 replies

Covidcovid · 18/01/2021 19:46

I witnessed this as a pedestrian.

Teenager on bike comes out of a side street moving at speed. A van is on the main road coming in the same direction as bike. Behind the bike. Van is doing at least 30mph. Road in opposite direction is clear but van only pulls out about 3ft while going round cyclist and doesn't slow even though he could have moved much further out.

There's a small tesco on the right and cyclist without looking veers to the right to go to tesco. Van was still some point behind him and braked/swerved.

Can ended up on the pavement opposite side of the road. Nearly hit 2 pedestrian and took the kid on the bike out at the same time.

Obviously the kid should have looked but I feel with more thought to hazard perception, going slower and wider this could have been avoided. Driver said to me when I told him he was going too fast that he was only doing 30.

Well don't do 30mph and pass a cyclist so near. Even before the kid veered to the right I was watching and thinking the van driver was driving like an idiot. I wouldn't have overtaken until past the tesco turn.

OP posts:
EnjoyingTheSilence · 18/01/2021 20:00

The driver was probably in shock

Twillow · 18/01/2021 20:00

As you say the cyclist pulled out on to the main road at speed, the van driver may not have had time to slow much - and there was nothing coming the other way. Then the cyclist turned right across the van without indicating. I'm not sure the van driver could have prevented this.
I hope the boy is not hurt.

RickiTarr · 18/01/2021 20:01

The cyclist didn’t look, didn’t look, didn’t indicate and he caused another road user to change speed and direction. ALL of those are against the Highway Code. All the van driver did is respond to the cyclist’s dreadful cycling.

lampygirl · 18/01/2021 20:01

You wouldn’t overtake another car at a junction, if you have any sense you’d anticipate there is a chance the car in front might still turn/slow down and so you shouldn’t overtake a bike or a horse or anything else while passing a junction either. Just wait til the junction has been cleared. It’s 100% the van drivers responsibility, as the cyclist is entitled to use the entire lane.

Lochroy · 18/01/2021 20:02

I don't know enough about the law and can't tell, but hope you are able to give a very fair and balanced witness statement - have you already down so? What you say could have huge ramifications. What angle were you at looking at the van from to know he only went out 3ft? Please consider this carefully if you haven't already done a statement as there is a lot in your post which is opinion. Absolutely fine for a mn chat though Smile

lljkk · 18/01/2021 20:02

I'm very glad the cyclist is ok, too.
I would also like the van driver to be more patient & considerate of vulnerable road users... but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Patience & tolerance are not in fashion.

WhereverIGoddamnLike · 18/01/2021 20:03

So the cyclist pulled out from riding on the left in the usual position, to riding in the centre in order to turn right, but didnt look or signal so he actually pulled out infront of the van, and the van had to swerve. The cyclist is at fault.

Original poster
Covidcovid · 18/01/2021 20:04

@Twillow

As you say the cyclist pulled out on to the main road at speed, the van driver may not have had time to slow much - and there was nothing coming the other way. Then the cyclist turned right across the van without indicating. I'm not sure the van driver could have prevented this. I hope the boy is not hurt.
The van was quite a way before the junction when the cyclist pulled out. So enough time to see him and think that maybe they needed to slow or hang back or at least pull out wider.
OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 18/01/2021 20:06

@Covidcovid

Kid was very apologetic to the driver. Driver just annoyed me a bit by ranting at the kid and unable to see that maybe if he'd been more cautious it wouldn't have happened.
Maybe if the cyclist had followed the cycling rules he wouldn’t have been hit! Absolutely not the drivers fault. Also, it said the van drove over the cyclist but the cyclist was ok. So the van absolutely didnt drive over him otherwise he would have been severely injured if not dead.
WhereverIGoddamnLike · 18/01/2021 20:06

Sorry. Just realised it waant a straight road. They were crossing a junction when the van was starting to overtake and the cyclist moved right. The van should not have been overtaking on a cross roads, because he should know that people will be manoeuvring.
The cyclist still should have signalled well in advance. If he had then none of it would have happened. I think this one will come down to people who work this stuff out for a living!

Original poster
Covidcovid · 18/01/2021 20:07

@Lochroy

I don't know enough about the law and can't tell, but hope you are able to give a very fair and balanced witness statement - have you already down so? What you say could have huge ramifications. What angle were you at looking at the van from to know he only went out 3ft? Please consider this carefully if you haven't already done a statement as there is a lot in your post which is opinion. Absolutely fine for a mn chat though Smile
Haven't made a statement. I don't think either of them even swapped details. Someone offered to take the kid home but he said he was fine and left. I was level with the van as he had pulled out to overtake and know it was only 3ft from the fact he was barely into the other carriage way.
OP posts:
Seeingadistance · 18/01/2021 20:08

From your description the cyclist is at fault all the way - from going out onto main road at speed, presumably without looking to see van approaching. Cyclist should have stopped at that point to let van past before coming out onto main road. Cyclist then at fault again by suddenly turning right without looking or signalling.

Van driver shouted because he got a fright.

Original poster
Covidcovid · 18/01/2021 20:09

Sorry you're right. The van went over the cycle rather than the cyclist. Kid was half under the van but behind the front wheels. The wheels didn't go over the kid but think they went over the bike. So I think kid slid down the side.

OP posts:
NewPapaGuinea · 18/01/2021 20:10

Highway code states you shouldn’t overtake at or approaching a junction. Although the cyclist should have checked he wasn’t being overtaken, the van shouldn’t have been overtaking in the first place. Van at fault in this occurrence.

Original poster
Covidcovid · 18/01/2021 20:13

@NewPapaGuinea

Highway code states you shouldn’t overtake at or approaching a junction. Although the cyclist should have checked he wasn’t being overtaken, the van shouldn’t have been overtaking in the first place. Van at fault in this occurrence.
That's interesting. I never do but didn't realise it was in the highway code in black and white. Makes sense.
OP posts:
knittingaddict · 18/01/2021 20:13

@Covidcovid

Kid was very apologetic to the driver. Driver just annoyed me a bit by ranting at the kid and unable to see that maybe if he'd been more cautious it wouldn't have happened.
He probably ranted out of shock.
CostaDelCovid · 18/01/2021 20:14

Police and the insurance would declare can driver at fault. Astonishingly it's almost always declared the driver's fault, even if a Cyclist/pedestrian goes straight in front of them

sofiaaaaaa · 18/01/2021 20:15

Are the police/insurers involved? If not, there’s no real point in debating.

They both contributed to the incident by falling foul of the Highway Code, both of them probably do similar things on a day to basis on the road so this will hopefully be a major wake up call for each of them. I hope someone advised the kid to go to hospital because he should really get checked over, his injuries may become more apparent once the adrenaline wears off

TableFlowerss · 18/01/2021 20:16

@ghostyslovesheets

no idea I can't make head nor tail of it - sorry
😂😂 that’s exactly what I thought after giving up reading it!
Worst · 18/01/2021 20:16

Driver was at fault.

If the van had hit the cyclist when he cut into the main road, the cyclist would have been at fault. However, as you describe it, this was further down the road.

The van driver shouldn’t have been overtaking when he was, and should have been aware of the potential hazard and ready to react.

Think if it as if the bike was a car moving at the same speed. The van driver would have been at fault for overtaking inappropriately.

Mycomfyplacetochill · 18/01/2021 20:17

It's a bit 50/50 in my book. Van driver sounds like he was going too fast and therefore driving without due care but ultimately if the cyclists had looked before he shot across the vans path then the accident wouldn't have happened

So cyclist was mainly at fault IMHO

CostaDelCovid · 18/01/2021 20:18

*Van.

However I'd say the driver was at fault anyway as he was overtaking where he shouldn't have been 🤷🏼‍♀️

CostaDelCovid · 18/01/2021 20:19

@TableFlowerss I understood it perfectly, as did many others. Have you a headache or something?! Confused

alexdgr8 · 18/01/2021 20:19

did cyclist leave his bike at the scene.
if not, how could he wheel it if the van went over the wheel.
both are at fault, but the van driver more so because:
he is in a vehicle, can cause more damage,
he is a full-grown man, rather than a child on a bicycle,
he should be anticipating hazards,
he was going too fast for the conditions/ layout.
what if a child had run out, he should be able to control his vehicle, bringing it to a safe stop, instead of mounting the off-side kerb. only by chance no one killed or injured.
police should have been called, cyclist may have been injured, even if he didn't realise it, and he is a minor.

Eckhart · 18/01/2021 20:21

I think it depends on the speed and the stopping distance. The cyclist is at fault for being erratic, but whether it was his own fault he got hit depends on the speed of the van, and how far it was from him.

It's impossible to tell without seeing it.