To think primary school children are smarter than we were in the 1980's?

[Littleideasbigbook]

After observing zoom lessons for two weeks and supporting my DD with her school work, I am pretty impressed with the cognitive abilities of 9 year olds in this country tbh.

There is definitely a spectrum of children in DD's class, of both demographics and ability, (Yorkshire village but next to a big industrial town that has a high index of social deprivation) so not all of them are super performers but the baseline level of applied knowledge, problem solving, analysis, socialisation, literacy, speech, presentation and grasp of technology is not that far off what I see at work if I am honest.

The way they are introduced to a new concept and then build their knowledge in stages, contextualise it then relate it to other subjects is amazing. They did a geography lesson on climate and biomes (they all knew what a bloody Tundra was!) and had a class discussion on different biomes in relation to the equator. One boy said 'Oh Miss C, is that an arid climate because of the angle of the sun?' and the teacher (cleverly) linked in with previous learning in science and maths. Don't get me started on their literacy either...they are amazing! When I was 9 I remember being bamboozled by Jesus feeding 5k people with 2 loaves and a few fish (catholic school) but it didn't occur to me to question it and say hang on, the maths doesn't add up here. I hear loads of people slag off the curriculum (and I don't doubt it is a pain to work with btw) but whatever schools are doing to translate it into practice, they are doing bloody well. The collaboration between the children is much better than I remember from my peers too - lots of feedback and peer marking, respectful. I wonder if better nutrition has helped? The internet? Parental involvement? Better quality teaching? Children's rights? I remember being leathered with a wooden spoon by the nuns and disliking school for that because I was a timid, tiny little girl. Maybe learning is helped by a lack of fear?

YABU - the primary aged kids I am in contact with are rubbish in comparison to my generation

YANBU - I have noticed that primary children seem much more able than in my day.

I'm impressed by my DC class. Bit surprised at the sophisticated language used with an audience of six year olds.

It also makes me wonder how much of this I WAS taught and have forgotten!

(Bet they know tundra from Minecraft though!)

My DC go to a very good primary and I'm in awe of the teaching they receive. Educational gaps have widened because social inequality has widened, not because of the teaching. Kids aren't any more or less intelligent though.

No, I don't really.

These kids have a lot of information, but many of them have fewer real experiences. Particularly with science related things. They know what tundra is - something they have never seen personally. But they have not spent time catching snakes in a field with their friends, or collecting frog spawn, or looking under rocks for salamanders. The probably couldn't tell you the difference between frog and salamander spawn.

And while they have been led through some complex ideas around abstract formulations, it's a more shallow understanding than it often seems to adults.

This comes out when they get older, to middle school age and above. Often they struggle and fall behind compared to school systems with a slower start to academics.

No, they're not.

I don't know.

I did 80s English primary and talking to others at different schools at similar times what was taught could be extremely patchy.

We did lots of singing country dancing and plays and apparently quite advanced maths for primary but that was smaller cohort than class - but little history, no geography or science till secondary and teaching grammar was out at the time.

On other hand DH and I at primary wrote much longer reports and essays than my children every had - I don't think mine have written many book reports - but DH and I at every different primaries did them regularly.

I think my children could have done when in earlier school years with less fun group work and more work on basics - something we had to do at home.

I do think our children overall have had better teachers than I got and obviously surround tech and society has changed.

I do think secondary is different to primary. I have one Year 8 and one Year 13 and their work seems prescriptive and boring. But I think we need to be more positive about oyr younger ones and their abilities. There is a lot of negativity abour 'the kids of today' even on this thread we have people hinting that they are lazy, unimaginative, unable to entertain themselves etc but I actually think they deserve a bit of credit.

The inequality gap is interesting - it applies across the board (finamcial, jobs, housing etc) so I am not surprised it is reflected in education.

Surely this just depends on the school you went to? I went to a small grant maintained CofE school in a very similar area to the one you describe but in the South, at the time it has a reputation of being a bit quirky and the head a bit of an ageing hippy.
When I went to secondary school I was amazed my peers from other primary schools didn't know what nouns/verbs/adjectives were, couldn't argue different sides of the same argument, were still using fingers to count simple sums and were panicked about mental arithmetic tests, couldn't play an instrument, were embarrassed to sing in assembly etc, we weren't taught by rote we were taught to question and challenge, we spent a lot of time outside (akin to forest school) these were all completely normal things to me. I was from the poor industrial bit btw, not the village nearby. Also when are you talking about, I went to school in the eighties and if a teacher had hit anyone there would've been uproar.

Teaching is so much better than in the 80's/90's, when I was in school. Teachers also seem much harder working amd more pleasant /less shouty! They also seem to emit less perfume and coffee fumes than when I was young!

Seriously though, I've actually learned quite a lot abouy Maths and Grammar whilst teaching my year 2 dd. Stuff I SWEAR I wasn't taught at school.

I agree OP. My children have covered material in juniors that we covered in secondary school, and the grammar and times table learning too. They are fortunate to have done french since reception too.
In contrast I think as a child of the 80/90s we did more independent work eg constant projects, no grammar and very little timestable learning. They are pushed to learn a lot and also have great experiences eg school trips pre-covid but maybe have less time for self driven learning? I do feel immensely grateful at the quality of their education although worry sometimes it is a little overboard especially for my eldest with SEN.

No I think if you picked up all of the education system of today (including the teachers) and all the tech available in the world right now and plonked it down in 1980, the kids of the 1980s would display the same level of intelligence. You are comparing apples and oranges really as 1980s education is not the same as it is today.

Sorry about the typos, my fingers are cold as me and the 9 year old have just been out walking on the icy tundra!

I agree about the lack of 'real' experiences but I don't think that is their fault is it? Children can't exactly take themselves out to remote ponds frog spawning or catching grass snakes any more. If they did they would be put on FB local groups either asking why they are unsupervised or causing trouble.

I do think that 'reading around' subject is lost. I remember writing an essay on the industrial revolution for histpry, I ended up reading something about communism and that lead me to read the communist manifesto because I had my interest sparked. My eldest is studying The Duchess of Malfoy for A Level English Lit and has admitted he hasn't read the whole thing. Just excerpts. And he is predicted a B

I think they are certainly much more worldly wise and clearly have access to much more information than we ever did.

I agree to some respect. My 7 year old has a wider range of knowledge and interests than I think I did at his age. His grammer is excellent. Part of this is taught, and part is due to the reading he does and the resources I can give to him which my parents couldn't give to me. Cheap book sets available online. His tech knowledge is great. However he struggles in maths and I don't think he's learnt the basics properly which I worry will affect him going forward. I agree with a previous comment - he has a shallow knowledge about a lot of things, whereas I remember being bored learning times tables by rote but have never forgot them.

The teaching is great though, and listening to the class they are encouraged to join in and have an opinion. I remember having a board rubber thrown at my head for talking!

I think teaching is massively more consistent and I think maths teaching is much better with more phyiscal objects.
I think music teaching is far worse than what was available to me though.

@Gwenhines which is kind of what I wondered.

Is it because the social systems around them are working in a different way or is it biological. We did lots and lots of 'projects' at school. And an inordinate amount of Religious Education. I definitely did not study different maths concepts in primary e.g. long multiplication, short division, statistics. I only really studied research methods and statistics in my MSc. I guess time will tell.

I definitely got hit by a wooden spoon regularly as a child - the nuns used to wait until we came in from the cold because it stung our hands more. And I remember watching a red faced headteacher use a pump on a boy who was (in hindsight) clearly being neglected at home and played up at school and pinched food . I also remember one female teacher (I remember her name!) who used a slipper on the same boy and her face was beetroot from whacking him so long and hard.

My DD is at High School. Year 9.
I can't help her with maths as it's too difficult for me. Her grasp of language and critical thinking is awesome. She's better at languages than me too.
I'm impressed!

My dad went to a Catholic school and whilst generally a very laid back supportive parent, when I suggested I'd like to go to the local Catholic convent school after primary, he firmly said no and there was no negotiating. He said then and still says now 'nuns are evil' , at his own Catholic school he was hit and physically punished in very cruel ways often designed to cause shame as well as pain, including a teacher hanging him by his ankles out of a second floor window to teach him not to be cheeky! So again I think it just depends on your specific experience. I have friends who went to our local convent and had a lovely time.

I do think that 'reading around' subject is lost. I remember writing an essay on the industrial revolution for histpry, I ended up reading something about communism and that lead me to read the communist manifesto because I had my interest sparked. My eldest is studying The Duchess of Malfoy for A Level English Lit and has admitted he hasn't read the whole thing. Just excerpts.

I did read a lot and often when I was presented with extracts by teachers would find the book and read it all. However at home entertainment was read or watch TV - DH was similarish though had more roaming opportunities than I did.

Our children don't read as much as there are more distractions.

Children's TV is better I think, you tube is great for sparking interests, more organised activties around for them to go to and more audible books. In many respects they have more opportunties or maybe just different ones.

Plus I do think primary schools don't push as much reading for pleasure as mine seemed to - though they had mixed results.

I think there have always been people who just read the extracts and study guides - but I agree reading time is down across the generation below us.

Just place marking as I don't have DC but was at school in the 80s myself, so am interested in the answer.

My recollection of primary school in the late 70s/early 80s was that it was quite routine - you got into your class, sat down and did written work at your desk all day, with occasional arts or crafts as a treat. There was no practical science, for instance, and very little field work.

@bingowingsmcgee

Interesting thread. I think the gap between low and high abilities has widened hugely. Not sure why. There seems to be much more group working, which is probably a good thing. I do think there is a place for some rote learning, and I think sometimes teachers have to tie themselves in knots trying to make something fun that just needs to be practiced the old fashioned way eg spellings and times tables. Love of reading seems to have decreased, general knowledge has increased because of the internet, as for critical thinking... hmm I'm not sure.

I would guess that the widening gap, in general knowledge especially but abilities as well, will in part be due to internet access, especially in older children and teens.

I mean, most teenagers have mobile phones with which they can access the internet. If they chose to, they could access information about virtually anything within seconds. They can also waste their time scrolling through Instagram and playing games. Those who are more intellectually curious may use the internet to broaden their knowledge. If you're studying the Tudors in school and there's something about Henry VIII's foreign policy you didn't understand in class, you can look it up in seconds and, from reading the online essay or a Wikipedia page, you also pick up information about the Hapsburgs or the Sack of Rome or the Reformation. You may choose to look into one of these subjects more and find out about the Lutheran movement which preceded the English reformation, and so on. Your general knowledge broadens.

But you don't have to do this. If you already have limited interest in what you're doing at school or for academia generally, then you might Google an answer for homework but that might be it. You're still using your phone but liking pictures on Instagram and scrolling through TikTok isn't especially conducive to your schoolwork. And your doing these things institute of reading a book or watching a documentary because there's nothing else on (why would you, you have Netflix) or conversing with others and picking up bits of information. You aren't even learning by accident as much as the previous generation did.

Obviously, it's not necessarily either or. Just because your enthusiastic about school doesn't mean you don't spend time watching vines and texting your friends and those who don't read around what they've done in school don't necessarily switch straight over to mindless scrolling. But the way individuals use technology is very different and only some children's education will benefit from it.

These kids have a lot of information, but many of them have fewer real experiences

I agree with this. Kids seem to have so much less freedom nowadays and less awareness of the real world.

I went to secondary in 1980 I think teaching is better and education is valued more. It was easier for people to leave school with few qualifications and find a job.

We we taught maths in primary to a decent standard including having to recite times table in front of the class and lots of snap mental arithmetic.
I don’t think children are cleverer but I do think they are better informed about the world.
I look at my own DC’s schooling and generally feel it is better than mine.

Not smarter, but better access to information and better taught maybe. My children aren't smarter than me, but have learned far more math etc than I ever did.

Those who are more intellectually curious may use the internet to broaden their knowledge. If you're studying the Tudors in school and there's something about Henry VIII's foreign policy you didn't understand in class, you can look it up in seconds.

I've been suprised how much our children seem to still follow youtubers DH and I watch on main TV - so history people , cooking and dunbunking, sewing, singers, minecrafters and well as new ones.

I think they are trained to jump through more hoops now. This probably suits the smarter kids, but I can already see my DS(6) struggling, and I think he would have been better suited to the bog standard no stress lessons I had in the 1980s.