to think most therapists/counsellors are underwhelming??

[UncleBunclesHouse]

Have posted similar in MH...I am hoping someone can give me hope! Or maybe not and I'm right...

I am really struggling at the moment with my anxiety and depression. I have just started some CBT through my local authority over the phone - it's ok, but this isn't the first time I have sought help and found it extremely underwhelming. I have then given up in the past as I just don't want to talk to them, which ends up actually making me feel much worse than if I hadn't bothered. I feel like everyone says 'speak to someone', 'reach out for support' blah blah but it usually doesn't actually help anything at all and I feel more hopeless.

I have had one really good therapist in the past through my employer scheme, however I moved so she is no longer an option. I have a great coach I use for professional development but she is very business-focused and doesn't deal with personal issues and is not a therapist/counsellor. I can talk to my DH to a point and he tries his best but I can't tell him everything I feel and I am also conscious not to worry him. None of my friends I have that type of relationship with. Talking to my mum generally ends badly as, although well-intentioned, she starts preaching to me as to what I should and shouldn't do based on zero knowledge and very much through her own lens. I find her advice particularly hard to swallow and get annoyed as she certainly didn't apply any of her own nuggets of wisdom when I was a child and although was loving and not a bad person, she was pretty awful a lot of the time TBH. Current situation of not being able to do F2F really doesn't help as I struggle to open up on the phone or via video call.

Sorry I am rambling - so is this the case others have found too?? Or has anyone found a really good therapist who is an asset to your life and who you actually want to talk to? Where/how did you find them? How do your sessions work? I don't mind paying if it actually works and they are any good! But so far I feel like it's not worth the effort and disappointment.

@OrangeSlices998 last time I tried it was more along those lines, again I just didn’t gel with the therapist but not sure if it was them or the approach that wasn’t working. I know I sound defeatist but I’d say I feel pretty defeated!

I felt the same with CBT. It felt like endless questionnaires and no getting to the real problems - just how to cope with having a panic attack, for example, as opposed to unpicking the reasons why. I also found it really condescending; the woman I had tried to explain fight or flight response in such a way that I felt embarrassed and annoyed. I tried explaining that I already understood all of these things, and she just repeated herself more forcefully.

It's a really underfunded area, and I honestly worry about ending up with PND because I wouldn't know who or what to ask for!

As someone has said, you’re likely talking to a graduate on the phone, someone with no formal qualifications.
Look for a HCPC registered practitioner psychologist (Counselling, Clinical or Health psychologist). They will have a degree, a doctorate, experience, and be chartered with the BPS. There is a price difference (£40 ish for counsellor, perhaps £80-£120 for psychologist) but they are trained for years in many therapies issues etc.

A “therapist” could mean many things. A Psychologist has very specific skills/ qualifications / experience

As a patient I found acceptance and commitment therapy useful. It was delivered in a group to people with long term depression mainly, also anxiety and other diagnoses (panic disorders).
To get on the course in our trust, we had to do a pre course which felt like a complete waste of time, as we had each had depression for on average 10 years and all had a degree of insight and access to Google.

With my current counsellor she works a lot on getting me to set boundaries with people and avoid being controlled. I am finding that much more useful at alleviating anxiety than previous look on the bright side approaches. I don’t have any homework which is just as well as I find it anxiety inducing enough just to remember what main issues I want to bring up in a session, as my brain tries to hide from them.

Like you OP, I have a mother who gives unhelpful advice that is in direct contradiction to my own upbringing. My counsellor has talked extensively about the boundaries around that with me.

There is some really excellent advice on this thread. Once I have completed my counselling (which will be followed by EMDR) in the NHS, I am saving up for private, despite low income, because it has to be worth every penny to see someone fully trained with experience.

I've seen good and bad therapists and having found one that is a great fit for me (through a work scheme like you) have paid a lot privately to continue seeing them and it has been life changing.

A lot of it is finding a good fit, both in terms of the type of therapy and the style of the person.

CBT is partly only as good as the therapist that delivers it. The relationship between client and service user is also key. The issue with nhs/ primary care CBT is there is little room for being able to change if the fit just isn’t right. On top of that CBT is most certainly the go to therapy but will simply not be right for everyone - however it is much harder and often a much longer wait to get any other type of therapy. For example to the poster who found EMDR much more useful than CBT I imagine the difficulties you were having and their origin meant you should have been offered EMDR first but for some reason were not. OP do you think having the therapy via video call rather than phone would make any difference for you right now? And if so is this an option they can offer? You sound terribly depressed and I imagine this must be impacting on your ability to focus on therapy right now. Are you having any other support or have you in the past?

I have person centred counselling through a charity, I am very lucky in that it is free and as many sessions as you want and it has helped me a lot. I find the therapist non judgemental, calm and it allows me a space to process past traumas. There's also no homework or ratings scales to fill in.

You do need to be careful finding a counsellor, make sure they are BACP registered and Counselling directory and psychology today vet qualifications and professional registration before they allow them to advertise.

Counselling really can work if you get the right counsellor for you and the right sort of counselling. After I separated from my abusive exH I went to one counsellor who didn't seem to offer anything tbh just sat and listened and then asked me what I thought or how I felt. I didn't feel I was getting anywhere with her then I went to a lovely counsellor who was a qualified Hypno-psychotherapist in she was really good. I was quite sceptical about it at first as well but it was amazing and the effects have lasted. My exH was and still is a narcissist and I was constantly on edge and in fight or flight mode after years of gaslighting and abusive behaviour. Any contact by text or in person used to set me off feeling anxious and unable to cope. After having the counselling whenever I have to deal with him now I get a much reduced initially anxious feeling but then I can feel the anxiety just sort of drain away. It is amazing.

I often wonder if all that stuff (CBT, counselling, therapy) works but I don’t think I’d gain in anyway from it.

It assume it’s successful for some people but personally I don’t think it would be useful to me.

I’ve got good friends who I can talk things through with so I imagine if there’s things people can’t discuss in the real world then it would be good to get it off your chest to a councillor.

A friend is a counsellor and very positive vibes and mindfulness and yoga/meditation. Whilst I can see the benefit of mindfulness ti a degree, imo unless the riot of your issue is removed it’s just papering over the cracks.

For example, many things that cause stress to people and make them depressed are their circumstances, job loss money worries, relationship breakdown. Those are that can chance in time though and you could meet Mr wonderful who’s a millionaire and suddenly your depression has gone.

But some things won’t ever change like having a disabled child, or a child with a life limiting disease and it wouldn’t matter what anyone could say, it couldn’t make it better, therefore I can’t see how someone would feel better.

That’s obviously just my thoughts on how it all works and why I don’t feel it could ever work for me. I hope that it does work for some people and they really do get something out of it.

Wish you luck OP xxx

To add- then there’s another group of people who aren’t depressed due to circumstances and they acknowledge that, but something that is bryony the control of anything. I assume more a chemical imbalance.

I often wonder how counselling can help this people... I hope they can

beyond the control

I couldn't wait for counselling, I do work books for my condition that I get off Amazon and watch youtube videos, I have PTSD. Counselling isn't a cure all, you need to research and do your own work on your condition too.
I find self help works for me.

UncleBunclesHouse - the thing is, you do know what works for you! You say you had a good therapist but you had to move.
That's what you need to look for.
It's great you've had a positive experience and have a model of what works for you.
Now you need to find a therapist like that - and, yes, it might require some trial and error, but you have that model.

I think your confidence is so worn down, you're thinking therapy isn't for you, or perhaps that the problem is you, of that you're 'unfixable'.

But that's just the negativity talking.

The therapy you're having at the moment isn't working for you.

But, thankfully, you really do already have a good idea of the type of therapy that does work for you.

If there is any way that you can go private please do.

My experience of free (it wasn’t NHS but referred to by them) CBT and private therapy was like night and day.

The first was every problem is made up in your head and if you just make up evidence to put in this column so your homework is complete and then give me improved numbers on the evaluation you’re then better. Which I did and felt a sense of ‘improvement’ from just the little bit of talking about things but if anything it kept me in the situation I shouldn’t have been in and did nothing to even look at past trauma.

The second was you’re fine we just have some stuff to work through and then you’ll be better connected to your self and everything else will fall into place. Which we did, and it did.

It’s not to totally write off the fundermentals of CBT but the way it is prescribed and delivered is not effective. Where as private therapists and councillors may use CBT techniques but also use lost of others to help you on an individual level.

If you can’t go private then stick with it and complete it as much as you can but then request actual counselling, or if you have GP appointments before it’s due to end tell them it isn’t working. I’ve learned that the NHS offers treatments for most things at levels, with you only being offered the next level up once the one before has been completed.

It can also sometimes help to have someone come to appointments with you to make sure the next step is in place.

*GP that is, not counselling

@redastherose

Counselling really can work if you get the right counsellor for you and the right sort of counselling. After I separated from my abusive exH I went to one counsellor who didn't seem to offer anything tbh just sat and listened and then asked me what I thought or how I felt. I didn't feel I was getting anywhere with her then I went to a lovely counsellor who was a qualified Hypno-psychotherapist in she was really good. I was quite sceptical about it at first as well but it was amazing and the effects have lasted. My exH was and still is a narcissist and I was constantly on edge and in fight or flight mode after years of gaslighting and abusive behaviour. Any contact by text or in person used to set me off feeling anxious and unable to cope. After having the counselling whenever I have to deal with him now I get a much reduced initially anxious feeling but then I can feel the anxiety just sort of drain away. It is amazing.

Being trapped in a state like fight or flight, or freeze mode as I was stuck in is exactly the sort of thing that counselling can really really help with

The NHS ones I've seen were clueless, ( no attempt to find out the root of my depression, just spouting platitudes) with one exception:She was fantastic but I moved out of the area. The private one I then saw was amazing. He'd been a GP for 10 years first & just 'got' me. I've just realised the 2 that were great were both 40+ & the awful ones were late 20's. Maybe age & life experience help ? Or maybe I relate better to someone whose been around the block a bit too.

I'm seeing a brilliant therapist on zoom, but pay privately for sessions. She specialises in trauma, and she's really helping me a lot.

I tried explaining that I already understood all of these things, and she just repeated herself more forcefully

I had exactly the same experience. She told me nothing that I didn’t already know. It got to the point where I could predict exactly what she was going to say next.

I did all the homework, tried all the tactics but they didn’t work because I already knew them and I’d already tried them with no success. But she just kept ploughing on, telling me there was no magic wand to make me better

I had a councillor for CBT, it didn't work, now while I won't say she gave up on me, she recommend someone else for me.

But on top of that, she recommend a mental health nurse, who sent me to someone else who helped massively with my anxiety.

Rereading that, it sounds like I was being passed around, but the new councillor, the mental health nurse and the anxiety guy were all at the same time and all were fairly effective, the only thing I have found recently (2 years later) is that when I go into a depression I don't seem to have th skills to cope with it

I think a lot of people expect coinciling/ therapy to be like Hollywood. Somone who will combatively draw out the truth you didn't know from yourself in relative short order.

Reality is its just a long slow supported acclimatisation

Just wanted to thank everyone for the really good advice here - with the motivation abs info on this thread to find the old therapist who I found very good, who it till turns out is indeed a HCPC Clinical Psychologist, got a zoom assessment booked in and my health insurance is going to pay! Can’t thank you all enough and hoping to soon see light at the end of the tunnel

*and info