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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think work can’t withhold sick pay

112 replies

Whattodo2021 · 11/01/2021 19:26

So I’ve been due to return back to work from maternity. Now schools are closed I have no childcare I asked work what I could do. They told me they could give me unpaid leave. I have been signed off before with depression and anxiety and I was so anxious about losing my house and stressed my doctor signed me off sick.

Work have emailed back saying it looks doubtful due to timing so they won’t be paying me sick pay. I’m not 100% sure but can they do this? I’ve been on antidepressants since my son was born, I had to leave my partner so I’m a single parent.

OP posts:
WB205020 · 11/01/2021 23:03

@Whattodo2021
Is it legal for an employer to ignore a fit note, probably not. If it went to tribunal they may get their hands slapped but the issue here is you asked them for furlough / time off they said no then the next minute present a sick not / fit to work note. It looks fishy and if it did go the tribunal route I suspect it could be mitigating circumstances on their side and you may lose. Not only that but the length of time it would take after all this calls down would probably be well over a year.

Viviennemary · 11/01/2021 23:05

I thought legally speaking if your doctor signs you off then you are entitled to statutory sick pay. But if you've been on leave of absence for extended maternity then that might affect what pay you are entitled to. To do with national insurance payments. Your ex needs to step up here in your difficult situation.

Original poster
Whattodo2021 · 11/01/2021 23:05

I’m hardly playing the system when I didn’t ask for a sick note. I spoke to my doctor because I check in with him periodically due to my PND. He suggested the note for the 100th time. Work said they don’t believe me. I do actually qualify for SSP. They don’t do any extra pay. My daughter would only go to after school clubs. Obviously I can’t send her to this now.

You can get furloughed due to childcare issues though. I didn’t choose this.

My ex cheated and was physically violent during the first lockdown. He now doesn’t work and has no contact with the kids. I have £7 a week currently off him.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whattodo2021 · 11/01/2021 23:06

I have looked into benefits but they said I would be sanctioned for a while for leaving a job willingly. I’m literally stuck

OP posts:
Almostslimjim · 11/01/2021 23:07

Thehop childcare issues is a legitimate reason to furlough staff, even if work is available.

Furlough costs employers, quite a bit AND they then have to backfill you to get the work done, costing them more. I can see why companies are reluctant - the government really needs to offer more.

OP, it's frustrating, but I can see why your employer thinks you are taking the piss.

Viviennemary · 11/01/2021 23:10

Whether they believe you orvnot if your doctor signed the note then you should get the ssp as you've said you qualify. Get the sick note and send it to them. They won't be pleased but that's what you need to do. It's not up to me or anyone to say you are fit or not fit for work. The note is signed. And apply for Universal Credit.

NoOneOwnsTheRainbow · 11/01/2021 23:14

Look, it's really really shit, but you would be a lot better off on Universal Credit given that this has been a long-term issue and you're obviously too unwell to work long-term.

SquirtleSquad · 11/01/2021 23:15

Here's your answer anyway OP, under the heading "is the fit note binding on me" taken from the official government guidance for employers on fit notes.

To think work can’t withhold sick pay
To think work can’t withhold sick pay
NoOneOwnsTheRainbow · 11/01/2021 23:16

@Whattodo2021

I have looked into benefits but they said I would be sanctioned for a while for leaving a job willingly. I’m literally stuck
But you're not leaving your job willingly if you're too disabled to do the job. Which, if you're signed off this often for depression, you probably are (regardless of the childcare issues which sound like they're not the main issue here).
Original poster
Whattodo2021 · 11/01/2021 23:16

Okay so they don’t have to accept it and need to bring a doctor in for an assessment

OP posts:
Nohomemadecandles · 11/01/2021 23:18

Well it looks doubtful because it is doubtful! You weren't ill until you needed to be as far as they can see.
But in any case, call ACAS or ask the employer to show you their policy or both.

SquirtleSquad · 11/01/2021 23:19

When DH lost both jobs UC never asked if he left willingly or not. He just said I've been let go or the company closed, there's not a question for it on the application nor was it mentioned when he had his interview.

2kool4skool · 11/01/2021 23:21

Or they could just let you go as you’re “not fit” (apparently) to work. They’d have to go through the proper and perfectly legal procedure but you’re not going to sit on sick pay forever. Even SSP is limited in duration, then you get nothing.

FATEdestiny · 11/01/2021 23:37

Apply for UC.

You are not being paid, you have children, you pay rent, you are a single parent. You WILL qualify.

8MinutesToSunrise · 11/01/2021 23:46

Whilst you're the lead parent for a child under 3 you wouldn't have any work commitments for universal credit, so definitely no sanctions. Universal credit essentials is a great site.

Godimabitch · 11/01/2021 23:50

I understand you're in a shit position but from your employers point of view you are fully taking the piss. Maternity leave, then holiday leave then you've asked to be furloughed, asked for more holidays and gone off sick when they've refused, yeah I wouldn't believe you either. We had an employee come in with a a sick note coincidentally for the dates he'd requested holidays for, he went to ayia napa to treat his depression.

Have you tried ringing the school to see if they can get in? You really need to focus on solutions that keep you in work.

AmberItsACertainty · 11/01/2021 23:57

You're not stuck. Go on sick leave. Most probably they'll pay the SSP. They're likely trying to bully you back to work by threatening not to pay it.

If they don't pay SSP do what the poster above said about getting the employer to fill in the form explaining why and then you send to DWP. I presume this means DWP might either give you SSP or something else.

Hopefully the end result is you have some form of income until your employer ends your contract for being unfit to work, at which point you apply for universal credit. I think the SSP limit is 6 months.

Sounds like you haven't been fit for work for a long time but have chosen to work anyway, if the GP has been recommended you sign off sick many times before. People are giving you a hard time OP. I hate the 'benefit scrounger' narrative of society.

Yes it's not easy on small businesses when staff are off for extended periods, but it's life. If a business can't accommodate their legal obligations with regards to staff sickness, holiday pay or maternity pay etc then they don't have a viable business, it's that simple. Screwing over your employees to keep the business going isn't acceptable. GPs aren't so keen to give out sick notes for extended periods to help people 'play the system', the GP is just doing their job and the sick people are doing what they're legally supposed to do in order to have an income. The state of the OPs employer's business is not her problem.

OP if the worst happens and you can't get any income I guess you'll have to quit and go on universal credit. You can use a food bank. Contact utilities and ask to pay quarterly if you don't already, to buy you some time. Think about what you can sell to raise the money to pay the rent or mortgage, if you can't get a payment holiday from those. I think some people can get temporary payment holiday from some things now due to covid. It's all building up a bigger bill for the future, but it could get you through for now until the universal credit payments start.

Lovely1a2b3c · 12/01/2021 00:09

Depression is a disability under the Equality Act 2010 so if you can demonstrate that your need to be at home just now is a reasonable adjustment for your illness then they might be discriminating against you if they don't allow it.

Lovely1a2b3c · 12/01/2021 00:12

Maybe write something to your employer like 'I have been struggling with severe Depression for a long time and am currently on anti-depressants and the current Covid crisis and a very difficult personal circumstance and lack of childcare are precipitating my depression. My GP has provided a sick note and states that I am unfit for work'- see if they change their mind?

Canwecancel2020 · 12/01/2021 07:47

Some good advice on here, especially Amberitsacertainty. I’m always disappointed with MN where MH is used as a reason for doing all sorts of things, but when someone is seriously struggling with mental health, particularly when it’s compounded with work issues/financial hardship, there is an attitude of disbelief or a race to the bottom of comparing circumstances.

In the space of a week, the OP has been plunged into a situation where carefully worked out finances (as I’m sure most single parents have to do) have been thrown up in the air and she’s worried about keeping a roof over her children’s head. Having this to deal with on top of clinical depression plus the practicalities of homeschooling one child and looking after a small baby without any respite would be hard and lonely for anyone. Can you support bubble with a friend OP just for a bit of help?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 12/01/2021 07:51

@vanillandhoney

If you've been off work for 52 weeks and don't/can't return, I think they can just terminate your contract, can't they?
Hardly. She hasn't been "off for 52 weeks" she has been on maternity leave which is a protected right.
Original poster
Whattodo2021 · 12/01/2021 08:11

Thank you so much for the kind messages. They made me cry. I’m not trying to play the system, I’ve worked ever since I left education, I’ve always worked really hard for my kids. All my savings went into moving out to a new safe home for my children. I will try and work out a plan today for moving forward. Thank you everyone for the advice and information

OP posts:
MassDebate · 12/01/2021 08:26

Flowers @Whattodo2021, you are obviously in a very difficult position. Have you spoken to the school? You may find that given your circumstances, they are willing to give your eldest DC a place, which would free you up for work.

vanillandhoney · 12/01/2021 08:30

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz yes I understand that, but she's now saying she can't or won't return to work.

I wasn't sure whether that would work negatively against her. What I read online suggests that she may not be entitled to SSP for the first eight weeks, and that if the sickness continues long term then the employer could head down the dismissal route.

MadameBlobby · 12/01/2021 08:32

OP ignore everyone droning on about “how it looks” or you taking time off after mat leave. At the end of the day it’s only business they would and have shafted you in the blink of an eye so you should feel no guilt. A doctor has said you are unfit for work. Are they doctors to dispute that? I don’t think so. They are on a sticky wicket of their own not to pay you SSP without medical evidence of their own to dispute yours.

You do what you need to look after yourself and yours. I’ve been that person working my bum off and making myself ill with stress for a job and it’s got me nowhere. Fuck them. If they’re happy to let you take unpaid leave then it’s a bit churlish not to pay SSP or furlough or let you take some holidays. Hang in there, speak to CAB or ACAS just now to try and get your money, and try and find a job that treats people like human beings when this crap is all over.