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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised my dd is still affected by this

52 replies

Fun6665 · 11/01/2021 18:30

She took a very small amount of tablets back in 2014. She confessed to me today she still wonders why she wasn’t admitted to a CAMHS unit. Was this a common thing to happen six years ago?

OP posts:
Fun6665 · 12/01/2021 21:18

She think she would have got better support as an inpatient than she did in the community. Yes she does think I prevented her getting a bed as at the time she begged me not to inform her psychiatrist so I didn’t tell her.

OP posts:
Wheresmykimchi · 12/01/2021 21:41

All the pushing in the world wouldn't have made s difference.

JohnBarron · 12/01/2021 21:51

I’ve had teenagers who are under 2:1 care on the Paeds ward who regularly try and harm themselves, ligature themselves, attack the nursing staff and destroy the ward wait months for an inpatient psychiatric bed. There is no way your DD would have got one.

cossette · 12/01/2021 22:18

Hi I've worked in CAMHS 19 years. CAMHS would not admit for a small overdose. The protocol in our large city CAMHS is an overnight stay for reflection in hospital and then a mental health assessment the following day to ensure they are safe to go home - and then a follow up appt within 2 weeks (or earlier if it is thought necessary). Your daughter had help from community CAMHS and only the very seriously mentally ill who could cause harm to themselves or others would be admitted. CAMHS inpatient beds are generally for extremely underweight eating disordered young people, YP with psychosis or those suffering major emotional disregulation who are on a strict, monitored medication regime. CAMHS clinicians constantly monitor for risk in all young people they seen - your daughter would have been admitted if the CAMHS practitioner felt it was warranted.
Hope this helps.

RosesAndHellebores · 12/01/2021 22:25

At a similar time my dd was cutting and taking regular small overdoses. CAMHS offered group therapy which I said was inadequate. They said the family have declined the intervention therefore we are closing the case. GP told me to find her a therapist off the Internet. She was 15/16, 22 now. When we went for the 9.30 CAMHS appointment we arrived at 9.15 and the lights were off and the door locked. We watched staff trickle in late and were eventually greeted at 9.35. A supposedly under-respurces 9-5 service. They might find the resources stretched further if they actually worked 9-5!

I had to find and appoint a consultant adolescent psychiatrist privately. About a year later dd who was much improved took a tiny od and took herself to the local A&E dept 48 hours later to make sure she hadn't harmed herself. She arrived at 2pm, the staff called me at 5.48. I was met by a paediatrician who told me I had given my permission for ss to be informed, and as a protocol they would admit with a 1:1 MH nurse overnight so camhs could assess the next morning and it was all protocol. A young person of 16 safety netted by psychiatrist because camhs had refused appropriate help. A psychiatrist who could have been contacted had they called me earlier. DD wanted to come home having been "persuaded" to stay without being told she could not change her mind when she had capacity. Inappropriate application of MH Act and deprivation of liberty. Fortunately I was able to establish that Adult MH liaison on site from 8am to 2am could assess. The paed said he could call the mh liaison people or the person in charge of the hospital. He should have done both. DD was allowed home but I still had to deal with a ward sister who also lied and who when I said we would leave in 10 minutes (at 10pm) after the mh liaison person had said an hour before we could leave once she had spoken to the Dr, and we were still being messed about, decided to scream down the a&e dept that I was obstructing my dd's care. Well no the only people who had ever done that were CAMHs.

Assessed by CAMHS the next Tuesday recommended counselling and confirmed it would start in a couple of weeks. Saw Psych the following day who also recommended counselling and I was happy to say, no worries, already in place via CAMHS. And then in two/three weeks there was an 8 week wait. Had they said that in the first place, we'd have gone for the private counselling. By the time they messed us about the private counsellor was booked for the summer holidays.

I find in totally unacceptable there is no money for early intervention yet there is c£970 for a wholly unnecessary acute admission for a safety netted child. And then they all whine about lack of resources They need to get themselves organised and join the dots.

My dd is 22 now and very well recovered thanks to £6k of private care. Oh yes after that little episode and crisis her private psychiatrist confirmed ADHD . I phoned CAmHs because my GP said I should. The supposedly very experienced camhs nurse actually laughed and said "well now I think she's a bit old for that" And to think the multidisciplinary teams are dependent on people like that cascading information upwards.

To be honest op it sounds as though your dd got a very good service at a similar age and time as my dd for whom there were no NHS services and what I saw was wholly incompetent and inadequate. Therefore I think you are being unreasonable but I do hope your dd is OK and wonder why this is still exercising her.

PodgeBod · 13/01/2021 00:06

I spent a few months in an adolescent psychiatric unit as a teenager. I'm quite a bit older then your daughter, I was admitted in 2007. I had made several serious suicide attempts (with extended hospital stays) before I was admitted and that was true for most of the patients there. CAMHS attempted to treat me in the community for as long as possible, so I dont think its unusual that your daughter wasn't admitted but maybe she is feeling like she wasn't given enough support.

Haworthia · 13/01/2021 00:14

Does she use TikTok by any chance? There seems to be a bit of a trend for girls (it’s always girls) in inpatient units making videos dancing around with each other, lip syncing to songs, showing their self harm (grazes on foreheads being common), dancing around with fellow patients, trading diagnoses (be it personality disorders or EDs). I’ve seen loads of them and they’re pretty disturbing. But there’s an undercurrent of glamorising too. It seems odd that your DD seems to think she would be better off for having been an inpatient and it made me think of those videos straight away.

Sinful8 · 13/01/2021 00:18

@Fun6665

I explained that resources are limited and always have been. I’ve also explained that it doesn’t mean people didn’t think she was struggling or not unwell. She’s said resources won’t as limited then and that a bed was probably available for her.
Being admitted isn't really "for the best" its a desperate last stop to protect somone from them selves.

Tell her not spending time on a ward was a blessing, she would likley have much much worse memories of that time if she had been

Sinful8 · 13/01/2021 00:27

@RosesAndHellebores

At a similar time my dd was cutting and taking regular small overdoses. CAMHS offered group therapy which I said was inadequate. They said the family have declined the intervention therefore we are closing the case. GP told me to find her a therapist off the Internet. She was 15/16, 22 now. When we went for the 9.30 CAMHS appointment we arrived at 9.15 and the lights were off and the door locked. We watched staff trickle in late and were eventually greeted at 9.35. A supposedly under-respurces 9-5 service. They might find the resources stretched further if they actually worked 9-5!

I had to find and appoint a consultant adolescent psychiatrist privately. About a year later dd who was much improved took a tiny od and took herself to the local A&E dept 48 hours later to make sure she hadn't harmed herself. She arrived at 2pm, the staff called me at 5.48. I was met by a paediatrician who told me I had given my permission for ss to be informed, and as a protocol they would admit with a 1:1 MH nurse overnight so camhs could assess the next morning and it was all protocol. A young person of 16 safety netted by psychiatrist because camhs had refused appropriate help. A psychiatrist who could have been contacted had they called me earlier. DD wanted to come home having been "persuaded" to stay without being told she could not change her mind when she had capacity. Inappropriate application of MH Act and deprivation of liberty. Fortunately I was able to establish that Adult MH liaison on site from 8am to 2am could assess. The paed said he could call the mh liaison people or the person in charge of the hospital. He should have done both. DD was allowed home but I still had to deal with a ward sister who also lied and who when I said we would leave in 10 minutes (at 10pm) after the mh liaison person had said an hour before we could leave once she had spoken to the Dr, and we were still being messed about, decided to scream down the a&e dept that I was obstructing my dd's care. Well no the only people who had ever done that were CAMHs.

Assessed by CAMHS the next Tuesday recommended counselling and confirmed it would start in a couple of weeks. Saw Psych the following day who also recommended counselling and I was happy to say, no worries, already in place via CAMHS. And then in two/three weeks there was an 8 week wait. Had they said that in the first place, we'd have gone for the private counselling. By the time they messed us about the private counsellor was booked for the summer holidays.

I find in totally unacceptable there is no money for early intervention yet there is c£970 for a wholly unnecessary acute admission for a safety netted child. And then they all whine about lack of resources They need to get themselves organised and join the dots.

My dd is 22 now and very well recovered thanks to £6k of private care. Oh yes after that little episode and crisis her private psychiatrist confirmed ADHD . I phoned CAmHs because my GP said I should. The supposedly very experienced camhs nurse actually laughed and said "well now I think she's a bit old for that" And to think the multidisciplinary teams are dependent on people like that cascading information upwards.

To be honest op it sounds as though your dd got a very good service at a similar age and time as my dd for whom there were no NHS services and what I saw was wholly incompetent and inadequate. Therefore I think you are being unreasonable but I do hope your dd is OK and wonder why this is still exercising her.

So tl,dr

"I refused care for my child, and they didn't override me"

Sums it up?

SlB09 · 13/01/2021 00:32

Maybe it's not her thinking about then but trying to bring up a difficult subject with you and looking to acknowledge current feelings or worries?

RosesAndHellebores · 13/01/2021 00:33

Would you be kind enough to explain your point please.

Lass67 · 13/01/2021 00:36

I wonder if perhaps she thinks things could have been different now and in what way? Perhaps you could explore this with her and be curious as to how things are for her now?

I’m sorry if this isn’t the most professional answer but when I did Tier 4 assessments my threshold for bringing a young person in would be sky high.
There isn’t really better support in hospital at all- that’s a fallacy- there’s just more supervision and you are competing with the other patients for it. The staff care but it is a scary place. I can’t tell you how many parents kicked off when they initially brought their child there because they thought they’d be going to some sort of playground like the Paeds ward with toys and head strokes and actually they meet locks, seclusion rooms, alarms.

Girls occasionally came in out of hours who’d taken small overdoses, cutting etc and we worked to get them straight out the door again because hospital could actually be harmful to them. I’d see intelligent young girls come in and a couple of months later they’d be swallowing batteries, inserting items into themselves, and bashing their heads off the wall- it’s iatrogenic harm. If someone needs hospital because the risks are so great that it outweighs the disadvantages so be it; but we wouldn’t remove a child from the family home, their school, their friends, and all those support structures to stick them in a locked sterile ward full of traumatised teens for just ‘more support’.

EveryoneRevealsThemselves · 13/01/2021 00:52

She’s said resources won’t as limited then and that a bed was probably available for her. I promise you that resources were just as limited. As others have said, the threshold to be admitted is extremely high. I really don’t want to go into details about two separate cases in my life at that time, but believe me, a bed was probably not available to her and there’s very little you or anyone else could have done to have got one for her (not would it have necessarily been in her best interests.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/01/2021 02:02

Behave @Sinful8.

Valkadin · 13/01/2021 02:10

Being an in patient is literally the worst thing in the world. Not because of the staff who are great but because of the acute distress and also stuff you see and are told by other patients. I remember a girl telling me how she was gang raped as a child multiple times. I then had to listen to her being restrained while she smashed her head full pelt in to the wall to try and make the thoughts go away.

I’m not saying depression isn’t crap but honestly to get an in patient space means you are a serious danger to yourself or others.

SD1978 · 13/01/2021 02:18

Because a very small number of tablets is not usually Indicitive of a 'serious' suicide attempt, and doesn't require inpatient care.

Siepie · 13/01/2021 02:22

@Fun6665

She think she would have got better support as an inpatient than she did in the community. Yes she does think I prevented her getting a bed as at the time she begged me not to inform her psychiatrist so I didn’t tell her.
So you didn't tell any CAMHS staff about her overdose?

DP used to work in CAMHS and I agree with other posters that your DD would almost certainly not have been hospitalised, even if you had pushed, but I'm wondering from this if she's thinking "what if?" in a broader sense about what more support could have been provided if her psychiatrist had known.

gutful · 13/01/2021 02:29

What type of medication was it
If someone took a small amount of tablets which was not an “overdose” (ie not a medical emergency) and later on was insisting they should have been sectioned into a mental health facility that indicates a possible bordenine personality disordered way of thinking

Attention seeking
Drama
Cries for help
Malingering / Hypochondria
Seeking out inpatient treatment (tied in with attention seeking)

Did she actually “overdose” ? Or has this now been characterised by her as an episode of “overdose”?

gutful · 13/01/2021 02:35

Add on-

Thin-skinned / not resilient (still affected by taking a small number of tablets which was not a clinical overdose)
Blaming family members for their mental health problems - she would be better if you had gotten her that imaginary bed she claims was available at that time.

Do you pander her a lot ? She needs to understand mental health services are strained & she did not actually overdose. Bad things happen to everyone. Her life & choices now are hers - irrespective of whether she was admitted then or not. She has the choice now to accept that she was not admitted to an inpatient facility & got through that episode.

I would advise to focus less on her malingering & focus on what she has achieved & can continue to if she decides to put her mind to it.

An overdose is a medical emergency & would avoid allowing her to continue to paint the past to suit her current perspective. It sounds like if she actually needed medical intervention & hospital you would have gotten it for her.

covidaintacrime · 13/01/2021 02:53

Honestly Gutful, ease up. A "very small amount of tablets" could mean anything when you don't know what the tablets are. Don't jump to calling her thin-skinned or attention-seeking, you're being intentionally goady.

frumpety · 13/01/2021 10:36

How is she now OP ? Does she think she her life would be in some way 'better' now, if she had been admitted in 2014 ? Has she continued to struggle with her mental health ?
Neither of you can change what happened or didn't happen back in 2014, perhaps her getting a bed would have been beneficial or as Lass67 post demonstrates, potentially more harmful.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/01/2021 13:55

@gutful

Add on-

Thin-skinned / not resilient (still affected by taking a small number of tablets which was not a clinical overdose)
Blaming family members for their mental health problems - she would be better if you had gotten her that imaginary bed she claims was available at that time.

Do you pander her a lot ? She needs to understand mental health services are strained & she did not actually overdose. Bad things happen to everyone. Her life & choices now are hers - irrespective of whether she was admitted then or not. She has the choice now to accept that she was not admitted to an inpatient facility & got through that episode.

I would advise to focus less on her malingering & focus on what she has achieved & can continue to if she decides to put her mind to it.

An overdose is a medical emergency & would avoid allowing her to continue to paint the past to suit her current perspective. It sounds like if she actually needed medical intervention & hospital you would have gotten it for her.

Bet OP feels loads better now .
GrolliffetheDragon · 13/01/2021 14:28

If someone took a small amount of tablets which was not an “overdose” (ie not a medical emergency) and later on was insisting they should have been sectioned into a mental health facility that indicates a possible bordenine personality disordered way of thinking

Or we're talking about a teenage girl who took more of a medication than is indicated on the box because of mental distress, who, looking back feels that their distress was not addressed/taken seriously and has got it into her head that if she been admitted she would have been listened to?

Because that sounds like the sort of thing a teenager might call an overdose and if any treatment offered for her mental distress didn't help she might well feel a different course of action (admittance as an inpatient) may have helped more.

GrolliffetheDragon · 13/01/2021 14:30

And have to agree. Nobody would have been admitted for that 6 years ago. And I've heard of some terrible cases where CAMHS won't even see them after the initial assessment. The bar is set very high to be under CAMHS at all, let alone as an inpatient.

unmarkedbythat · 13/01/2021 14:52

I would advise to focus less on her malingering

If you used that language towards any of the young people admitted to our MH unit you would be in all sorts of bother.

If someone took a small amount of tablets which was not an “overdose” (ie not a medical emergency) and later on was insisting they should have been sectioned into a mental health facility that indicates a possible bordenine personality disordered way of thinking

NICE define an overdose as "the use of a quantity of drug in excess of its intended or prescribed dose". Quite clearly, such an action does not need to constitute a medical emergency to fit the definition.

If you are a mh professional who can actually diagnose people, you know better than to attempt to do it over the internet based on a post about someone else; if you are not qualified to diagnose then don't do it. Imagine someone noting that you had misrepresented the content of op's posts (pretending that she has said that her daughter is "was insisting they should have been sectioned into a mental health facility", come on!) and started wondering what MH disorder that was indicative of.