Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Parking advice please

102 replies

gonewiththegin · 11/01/2021 13:43

Hi all, not sure if this is the correct place.

I have moved in to a house a few years ago that had a driveway but not dropped the kerb. As far as I can’t tell this had been done around 10 years ago and no issues. There are concrete blocks against the kerbside to act as a ramp.

Letter received form council today telling me I have 14 days to remove the ramps as they are an obstruction on the road. If I do not they will remove themselves and bill me.

AIBU to think I shouldn’t have to fit the bill for this? I bought the house and I am not responsible for the obstruction. I do agree that it is that however I bought the house and surely not responsible for something that was done long before I purchased.

OP posts:
vanillandhoney · 11/01/2021 15:42

@RandomLondoner

There's a huge number of thick posters on this thread. Please can you all explain why she is legally responsible for some lumps of concrete that she did not create and that are not on her property?

(I'm not including the engineer in this, but I'd like him/her to explain further what law makes OP responsible for removing concrete from the public road?)

It's not being thick Hmm

The council will argue that the only reason for the concrete blocks to be there is to provide OP with access to her property. How will she prove otherwise?

Dawnlassie · 11/01/2021 15:43

Have you had any dialogue with the council then? Perhaps ask them under what legislation you are obliged to remove property that isnt yours?

SoupDragon · 11/01/2021 15:45

The council will have to dig up the pavement and remove the blocks to drop the kerb so maybe you can discuss them doing it all at the same time, thus incurring no extra cost other than the dropped kerb.

ZoeTurtle · 11/01/2021 15:45

If you don't use the blocks or park in your front garden then just respond saying the blocks are nothing to do with you - you didn't install them and don't use them - so the council can remove them if they want but you won't be paying. If they insist then get legal advice rather than MN advice.

Original poster
gonewiththegin · 11/01/2021 15:46

@vanillandhoney I can prove otherwise- they were not there when I bought the house and they are certainly not something I have installed for my benefit

OP posts:
NeilBuchananisBanksy · 11/01/2021 15:47

If you used them to access your paved area for use as a drive then the council would be in their right to ask you to remove them or bill you for it.

For example, if built a fence on my neighbours land they could ask me to remove it or they could bill me for its removal.

However, if you don't and never have used the patio area as a drive and they pre-date your ownership I think you have a good case. But only if you haven't used it as a drive.

RandomLondoner · 11/01/2021 15:48

Do you use them to access your patio?

If you use a public road to get to your house, that doesn't make you directly responsible for maintaining the road. Why is this different?

No, but how are you planning to prove that you don't use them to access your property?

They'll just say theres no other reason for them to be there

What has any of that to do with anything? She's said she doesn't, but even if she drove her car across the ramps on a daily basis, what law makes you legally responsible for stuff merely because you use it?

vanillandhoney · 11/01/2021 15:48

[quote gonewiththegin]@vanillandhoney I can prove otherwise- they were not there when I bought the house and they are certainly not something I have installed for my benefit[/quote]
Unless I'm missing something obvious, how does that prove that you don't use them?

SoupDragon · 11/01/2021 15:50

they were not there when I bought the house

So, you put them in then?

Chanandlerbong01 · 11/01/2021 15:51

Potholes also don't exist to allow you access to your property, whereas the concrete blocks do.

These don’t allow OP to access their property. As previously stated they park roadside, plus the concrete blocks aren’t lined up well so would cause damage to their car.

vanillandhoney · 11/01/2021 15:52

What has any of that to do with anything? She's said she doesn't, but even if she drove her car across the ramps on a daily basis, what law makes you legally responsible for stuff merely because you use it?

Because the council will argue that they're solely there for OP's benefit as they only provide access to her property. They'll say they didn't put them there, so they're not the councils' responsibility.

I'm not saying it's right - I'm more playing devils' advocate. I just think OP will struggle to prove that she doesn't use them and that they're not there to provide "driveway" access to her home.

If OP also then goes to them and says she wants them gone but she also wants a dropped kerb put in their place, that may say to the council "you only want a dropped kerb now because we've told you to remove the blocks you were previously using to access patio".

Again, not saying it's right, but that's presumably how they'll argue it.

Moondust001 · 11/01/2021 15:52

I think the problem is that you would have to sue the surveyor, estate agent, solicitor and /or whoever else didn't pick this up - you are kind of right that you didn't put the things there, but they acted on your behalf, so somewhere in the mix is someone acting for you who made an error. The problem is, of course, "good luck with that" - it'll probably cost you six times as much to take legal action and you probably won't win. Sometimes, you just have to suck it up, and I'm afraid this is probably one of those times.

vanillandhoney · 11/01/2021 15:53

@Chanandlerbong01

Potholes also don't exist to allow you access to your property, whereas the concrete blocks do.

These don’t allow OP to access their property. As previously stated they park roadside, plus the concrete blocks aren’t lined up well so would cause damage to their car.

But she'll need to prove that to the council, because they'll just say that they're only there to provide access to her land.
RandomLondoner · 11/01/2021 15:55

The council will argue that the only reason for the concrete blocks to be there is to provide OP with access to her property. How will she prove otherwise?

[Bangs head on desk.]

Please explain why using something, or having something nearby that is potentially of use only to you, makes you legally responsible for it?

Why do you think she has to prove anything? Someone other than her has damaged council property, the fact that it was probably a previous owner of her house doesn't confer any responsibility on her.

Original poster
gonewiththegin · 11/01/2021 15:57

I can’t prove I don’t use them anymore than they could prove that I do.

Spoke to the council and they have agreed to remove them without sending my a bill as they clearly predate myself as the owner

OP posts:
vanillandhoney · 11/01/2021 16:00

Please explain why using something, or having something nearby that is potentially of use only to you, makes you legally responsible for it?

Again, I don't think it does! I've said, this is probably how the council will argue it to avoid footing the bill.

Why do you think she has to prove anything? Someone other than her has damaged council property, the fact that it was probably a previous owner of her house doesn't confer any responsibility on her.

I agree, but to prove that will cost her a lot more than £500, so what's the point? It won't achieve anything.

So unless she wants the council to try and take further action, she can either pay the £500 they're asking for, or ask on Facebook/social media and see if someone can come and get rid of them for her. It wouldn't be a difficult job.

Then she can apply to the council for a dropped kerb when she re-does the driveway.

vanillandhoney · 11/01/2021 16:00

@gonewiththegin

I can’t prove I don’t use them anymore than they could prove that I do.

Spoke to the council and they have agreed to remove them without sending my a bill as they clearly predate myself as the owner

Glad it's all sorted.
HintOfVintagePink · 11/01/2021 16:01

@SoupDragon

Your solicitor wouldn't know whether it had a dropped kerb or not.
Quite. Solicitors don’t usually carry out a visual inspection of the property. Unless there was a photograph or mention of the kerb/parking area in the agent’s property particulars that your solicitor had sight of then you won’t have much recourse I’m afraid.
Arobase · 11/01/2021 16:21

You will be asked to foot the bill because the concrete blocks are only there to benefit your property.

@CorianderBlues, does this still apply given that the blocks aren't aligned with the driveway and it would actually cause damage to cars if drivers tried to use them for that purpose?

Arobase · 11/01/2021 16:23

The council will argue that the only reason for the concrete blocks to be there is to provide OP with access to her property. How will she prove otherwise?

The fact that she can't use them to access her property by car without damaging the wheels?

I can't see how this is the solicitor's responsibility, it's not the sort of thing that would show up on searches or that form part of standard inquiries.

CorianderBlues · 11/01/2021 16:32

@Arobase

You will be asked to foot the bill because the concrete blocks are only there to benefit your property.

@CorianderBlues, does this still apply given that the blocks aren't aligned with the driveway and it would actually cause damage to cars if drivers tried to use them for that purpose?

It depends how much separation there is. That said, fighting it is pretty much a hiding to nothing - if the council have identified them as for the purposes of accessing the house then they (as the highway authority) would be the ones who have the final say.
CorianderBlues · 11/01/2021 16:33

@gonewiththegin

I can’t prove I don’t use them anymore than they could prove that I do.

Spoke to the council and they have agreed to remove them without sending my a bill as they clearly predate myself as the owner

That's brilliant news. Well done.
Original poster
gonewiththegin · 11/01/2021 16:42

@CorianderBlues thank you! Hoping to get confirmation in writing just to be sure

OP posts:
Dawnlassie · 11/01/2021 18:59

Spoke to the council and they have agreed to remove them without sending my a bill as they clearly predate myself as the owner

I dont get why didnt you phone and tell them that in the first place?

Original poster
gonewiththegin · 11/01/2021 19:52

@Dawnlassie I did, I was told no. I then escalated. Thanks for your input Wink

OP posts: