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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Scouts/ Guides etc charging full fees

72 replies

Oileo · 10/01/2021 19:52

Obviously all groups are different, but ours are definitely not being charged for halls (As stated on the parish website and confirmed verbally). Different if groups are being charged. However most our subs go on in session resources, towards trips etc.

My third is now ready to join, which has prompted this. The first term will be £35. Only they’ll be solely zoom. It’s a new pack.

With our current pack I’ve stepped up and contributed a lot to zoom sessions and any face to face as a leader, doing something with every week- but overall I’m not earning and nearly a year in I could do with a bit of a break on subs.

Are your groups still charging normal subs? I know nationally scouts and guides are actually increasing costs for registration.

I’m noW feeling like I’m tight because I’ve just asked if the youngest can remain on the waiting list until face 2 face starts up. They were a bit off and I’m guessing her place is lost. But she has no interest in zoom at all at age 5. Loves a hall full of friends, but by 5:30 she’s not up for screen listening at all.

How are your kids finding it at after school times if they do it?

OP posts:
underneaththeash · 10/01/2021 21:22

All guiding units have to pay something called census soon. It’s a significant amount of money per girl. We still have to pay for the scout hut that we usually use.
We’re doing zoom this half term, we have an animal session, baking - I’ll deliver ingredients, a badge session - again with resources.
Next half term, we’ll hopefully meet outside, we also have a sledging session booked. I spend a decent amount of time facilitating the group.

So the options are:

  1. The unit closes
  2. The unit says open and I pay for census
  3. The unit stays open and the parents of the brownies pay for census.
BiddyPop · 10/01/2021 21:25

We only charged 50% fees for 2020, because the letter to parents was delayed and we were already in COVID restrictions. Membership secretary totally totally fucked up last year though as it was supposed to go out in November not April, and we had to pay census and insurance to HQ in Jan....so we paid out 14,000 but only got 6,000 in subs. (And that 6k also had to cover electricity, oil for heating, bins, materials for boat work/maintenance, and replacing worn out gear as well as some running costs for each of 4 sections, and training for leaders - which was effectively shelved for the year).

This year, request went out in November as we cannot register anyone who hasn't paid - registration is end Jan.

Last year, 3 sections mostly stopped but 1 Cub pack met on zoom weekly (other Cub pack managed some different remote activities) from March to June.

We met in person in July, and Scouts managed to get boating relatively actively all summer. Both Cub packs also got boating in September (Cubs alwaYs stop for summer and leaders needed the break as all worked throughout).

Both Cubs packs extended their boating season from end Sept to end Oct (when some were starting to feel the cold and not all have wetsuits to keep going later) so had the same number of sessions as most years (normally spread over May, June and Sept but bank holidays and summer camp interfere).

The way our restrictions worked in the autumn, we could meet outdoors in pods of 15 so 2 Patrols at a time. 1 Cub pack ran 2 back to back sessions on their usual morning, the other moved from a weeknight to 1 Saturday morning and 1 Sunday afternoon session to cover their 2 pods. So we both had a full, if different, normal programme in person - just no hikes or overnight trips.

Scouts mostly continued to do boating until early December, and they managed some theory work in small groups outdoors at the den. But they have suffered more compared to Cubs with keeping active and keeping members .

Our Group Leader held meetings with Scout Leaders earlier this week and Cub Leaders this morning, to organise ourselves and keep active. We don't have spare funds so need to charge full fees this year.

But we had managed a reasonably full program last year - only missing 3 weeks at the start of lockdown and our overnight/hike events. And we plan as good a programme as is possible - it will be different but it will still be Scouting.

We still have to pay full fees and insurance to HQ. We still have to pay to maintain the boats, empty the bins, etc. We had some savings on electricity and oil over the year, but a lot more on PPE (gloves, hand sanitiser, paper towels, etc) than we'd normally spend on just soap and loo rolls.

So we are charging full fees.

We are a voluntary organisation and if we have no money in the bank, we MUST fold.

As always though, we will cover the fees for those who are financially unable but still want to be part of the Group. But that is a confidential matter between the Treasurer and those families - no other Leader is aware of who has or has not paid.

And in terms of the Cub pack I run, we normally ask €20 per Cub per term (instead of €2 per meeting) to cover our incidentals. Like the first Necker for each Cub when they are invested, T-shirt for each Cub on camp, peaked cap for the final year Cubs (recognising their seniority), all badges, craft materials (including some tech bits of we do a design-a-thon or proper artist boards for our annual art lesson with local professional artist (she gives her time free)), prizes for competitions and odd treats needed, the food for end of year party and if we do back woods cooking day, rope for knot work, sunscreen for those who forget it on camp and boating, card for the Cubs to make thank yous for people who have done something with Cubs etc etc etc....

In 2020, we had collected this for term 1, but we didn't collect it for either of the other terms and managed with what we had. Some costs didn't arise because of the year it was, but we still had badges, end of year picnic (so more expensive to have individual bags of goodies for each Cub not big sharing bowls in the Den) and PPE for out in the woods.

So I hope to keep this low again this year but we'll need some to cover the costs.

And as a Leader, I have purchased a zoom licence personally almost entirely for use by Cubs (I could manage my other needs in the free version) and not charged the Group that cost. And the paid Dropbox also for Cubs so the Leaders can manage the paperwork (I have a lot of resources stored there that we can use both for Scouting in person and Scouting remotely as well as the necessary admin stuff - which is enough on its own!!).

And all this as a volunteer.

Oileo · 10/01/2021 21:27

I’m not at the point of hardship, as in I can’t eat if I pay Subs or something, but I am at the point of making decisions. We’ve been one income since March. I’m sure many are like us in the middle. Cutting subscriptions and extras but not calling on accessing help either. Just at the point where things need trimming a bit to balance everything, and extra activities can’t be just supported easily just so they are still there for those with younger children. It’s awkward because I am stopping things for financial reasons, but it’s more financial choice... we can afford a few things rather than a range of things so some things have to go. I reckon a lot of families are stopping for this reason.

OP posts:
BettyOBarley · 10/01/2021 21:27

Our rainbows group is charging full subs this term but as others have said it's due to the charges they are getting this time.

Lemonpiano · 10/01/2021 21:31

I think the last I heard Girlguiding was having to make something like 30% of its staff redundant. Both organisations are under massive financial pressure.

Oileo · 10/01/2021 21:34

@Lemonpiano the tricky think is though I also have been without an income since March. We can pay bills on one income, but not the same as just doing whatever we want. It’s not just girlguiding for example, we’ve gone carless for financial reasons. We’re not in crisis, but it’s a factor in all decisions.

OP posts:
Lemonpiano · 10/01/2021 21:34

I do appreciate we are all having to make tough decisions like this right now.

I'm posting more from perspective of why subs are still being charged rather than that individuals should feel the weight of continuing organisations is on their shoulders alone.

It's a bit like all the discussions about National Trust memberships etc.

Lemonpiano · 10/01/2021 21:36

Absolutely. Respect that.

Ty36 · 10/01/2021 21:36

Our rainbows has been closed since March and they said they won’t be taking any subs. They said they will be reopening eventually.

JerichosPenisInADeadChickHat · 10/01/2021 21:41

Ours are closed and we haven't paid a penny. Nor have they done any activities online or otherwise.

I'm quite surprised actually as they were very active. It's one thing I'm really sad for the kids about. The eldest might be too old to go back Sad

yogamatted · 10/01/2021 21:47

Our cubs and scouts kept going whenever we were not in full lockdown, smaller groups, shorter sessions but every week, outdoors, whatever the weather. I am so grateful to those leaders. And yes we paid full subs.

MrsFionaCharming · 10/01/2021 21:51

My Guide unit received a large grant last year, we were planning to spend on new tents. Instead we’ve just stopped charging subs, and will use it to pay the annual census fee. Hopefully once we’re allowed to meet back, we’ll be able to fundraise for the camping equipment.

Serin · 10/01/2021 21:51

In 2017 their staff wage bill alone was £7.6 million. This does not include pension contributions. They certainly aren't all volunteers.
I volunteered for 8 years with guides and got utterly fed up of their financial demands. In the end we set up our own youth club and we charge £1 per week. The village hall costs £6 per hour and we have around 45 kids (pre covid). We earn enough to take everyone on a summer holiday and we have had lots of support from the parish council and local businesses.

DelurkingAJ · 10/01/2021 21:53

We’re running online (Scouts met in person for a while). We’ve been lucky enough to get a grant (because we own the hall and therefore have lost all our external hire income) so we’ve asked for half subs...because capitation and hall maintenance go on regardless. We usually charge £45 a term. We do give a discount to leaders because, frankly, we’re utterly desperate (we’re minus a Beaver leader at the moment and may end up disbanding despite having a waiting list long enough for a second colony). I’m Treasurer and currently chasing about a third of the parents (despite saying endlessly that we’re happy to support those struggling (we really are)).

Ayupmeduck · 10/01/2021 21:59

Normal subs here too. £30 per term. £90 for the year.
They've been amazing during lockdown down, delivering crafts for online activities, badges, little presents etc. It's the one bit of social contact DS (8) gets each week albeit online.

AnitaSue · 10/01/2021 22:02

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IceBearRocks · 10/01/2021 22:03

We have said no. Dd started in January....hasn't even made her promise. No zoom meetings, just things sent via email. Another job for me to do.
Nope ......

Vinorosso74 · 10/01/2021 22:04

We've paid less for DD's termly Guides fees.

Forgothowmuchlhatehomeschoolin · 10/01/2021 22:04

Not had anything since March - no zoom offered which to be honest isn't really what we would want anyway. Dd not bothered about returning but l feel bad for the volunteers, especially as it is my next door neighbour that runs it. That is going to be an awkward conversation

Beamur · 10/01/2021 22:10

We gave our parents the option not to pay if we were on zoom only. But most have been able and willing to pay. We have some reserves to cover the census but many units operate with far fewer subs and less income.
Guides has lost lots of income from its residential facilities. They're not offering any reductions to the census because I don't think they can afford to.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 10/01/2021 22:10

Our Subs are £9 a month. Most of our income comes from other groups hiring the hall. Lockdown means we cant hire out the hall. Fortunately the council lowered rates, and we got a grant. We urgently need nee fire doors.
Capitation is due

Doublechins · 10/01/2021 22:15

We haven't paid any subs at all since the start of the first lockdown. They've had zoom meetings and then were allowed back for a bit for F2F but they were doing activities like snow tubing so we didn't pay. I think they've applied for some grants and that has covered the money they would usually get from the subs. We usually pay £2 per week but don't pay if they are doing an activity. We also usually do a big fundraiser at xmas time but couldn't do that this year.

EggyPegg · 10/01/2021 22:30

DS2 does Beavers and it's £35/term. I'm happy to pay it as whilst he's missing the opportunity to belt around the hall with other 7 year olds, his leader is fantastic and makes the Zoom sessions so engaging. We have also had resources, badges etc, all of which cost money.

He only started in November so hasn't been to a F2F meeting yet. But he has been invested and the scarf and woggle cost money too.

If it's not the right time for her to join for you, then you'll have to let the space go. Is it easier to get a space at Rainbows? Could you get another space later on? Round here Beavers is very over subscribed. He went on the waiting list for 10 local packs back in February, and eventually got offered two spaces in one week in November (neither are our closest).

AliceMcK · 10/01/2021 22:45

I agree. It’s a big bone of contention for me. We are paying full subs and doing zooms which involves me being there during the calls, if I’m not then DDs can’t always do the activities. I send them to rainbows and brownies for them out doing things, now I’m paying full price for inconvenient zooms while I’m trying to get other things done, usually dealing with a tired toddler. Not only that I’m having to spend extra money on addition bits that are needed. Before Xmas they did baking, making truffles etc... great, got all the ingredients x 2 one for the brownies zoom one for rainbows, but no one wanted to eat any of it afterwards so most got thrown away.

I gave in last term because DDs really wanted to do them and all other activities have been cancelled but I don’t think I will be doing it this time. Given they aren’t in school I’m hoping they will actually forget about them. It’s usually a couple of specific girls that have reminded them in the past.

I feel bad but I also know that the rainbows group has a waiting list and brownies has taken in extra girls from another pack that closed.

Indecisive12 · 10/01/2021 22:51

We stopped paying a few months ago, they were charging full fees at £10 with no digital offer whatsoever and no intentions to try it.