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Original poster

Not attend team meetings due to boys club

26 replies

Lonelyflower80 · 09/01/2021 13:09

I'm the only female on a team of 4 men, including my manager. We have been working remotely since March 2020. I have been in the team for the longest.

Each morning we have a daily team meeting that has, since a new person joined team 2 months ago, been making me feel really miserable. I can only describe it as a lads club in which they make sexual innuendos when talking about their work tasks and, as the new member is mates with someone else in the team, talk about their weekends, kids etc. Loads of inside jokes. No one asks about mine, if I try and join in they are short or ignore me as they dont care, they dont remember name of my kids but they all know each others etc that is fine as I'm not there to makes friends (though I am polite etc). But it has started to affect my confidence and mental health. I dread 09:30am everyday. And I don't even feel confident bringing up work related things in our meetings anymore due to the culture. Sometimes I bring up an idea and get shot down by the guys in the team (not my manager) only for one of the guys to say it in different way / different day and it be accepted by them. All of this is very subtle though. Its like death by 1000 papercuts.

I dont want to leave my job because I don't fit into the boys club. I am good at my job. I am the most qualified. I have been there longest. I have a good relationship with my manager one to one. He is assigning me a project that will hopefully take me away from doing same work as team 4 out 5 days for next 6 months soon. I was wondering if I should ask my manager if I could stop attending the team meetings? And if so what to say. Or will this reflect badly on me. I dont know how to cope if I have to keep attending :( my confidence is shot.

OP posts:
WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly · 09/01/2021 13:13

Can you speak to your manager first about how the tone of the meeting has changed? In the mean time, keep notes about specific incidents (date, who said what)

Please don't think the problem is you and that you need to remove yourself. The problem is them and your manager needs to sort it. It's a workplace, not the taproom of a football hooligan pub.

TeenPlusTwenties · 09/01/2021 13:14

Manager. As you know I love my job and I really respect you. i have become increasingly uncomfortable with the way team meetings go. Especially the sexual innuendo and off-topic chat.
For example
... and ... and ....
Please could you bring in some new 'guidelines' and structure to the meeting so they stay focussed and formal, as i really don't think I can continue with them if they stay like this. Regards

peak2021 · 09/01/2021 13:15

Sexism should be challenged, suggest starting with a conversation with your manager. A chat about children or weekends is perfectly achievable without sexism or innuendos.

middleager · 09/01/2021 13:18

I would record the teams meeting and write a transcript to illustrate your point!

Not sure this is even legal or ethical, but seeing the sexism written down might be more powerful.

goodwinter · 09/01/2021 13:19

@TeenPlusTwenties

Manager. As you know I love my job and I really respect you. i have become increasingly uncomfortable with the way team meetings go. Especially the sexual innuendo and off-topic chat. For example ... and ... and .... Please could you bring in some new 'guidelines' and structure to the meeting so they stay focussed and formal, as i really don't think I can continue with them if they stay like this. Regards
Yeah, something like this. Don't allow yourself to get pushed out of your own team because of the culture.
Marchitectmummy · 09/01/2021 13:26

Next meeting influence the atmosphere and reclaim the meeting. When you get in there big cheery hi guys and then just keep talking before they get the chance to make the meeting revert.

Dominate and change tbe atmosphere or you will be walked over, here it is men somewhere else it will be a clique of women, could be anything bit if you don't establish your presence this issue will follow you everywhere.

SomewhatBored · 09/01/2021 13:32

I would record the teams meeting and write a transcript to illustrate your point!

If you record on Teams a message comes up to tell everyone you are recording.

TillyTopper · 09/01/2021 13:45

I'd book in a 1 to 1 with my manager and calmly discuss it with him. It may be that he has also thought that but needs a push to do something about it. Good luck in sorting out it doesn't sound nice.

FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 09/01/2021 13:57

I wouldn't ask not to join the meeting. This will give them ammunition to use against you (if it ever came to that) that you weren't a team player etc.
I would concentrate on the work stuff. Your ideas that arent getting a hearing and then brought up by someone else. Your manager is being quite poor by letting this happen. I would make notes of specifics (eg I suggested x on y date and it was ignored and then Pete suggested it on a date and it was accepted) and ask your boss if he has noticed the atmosphere. He should have nipped it in the bud as culture is quite hard to change the longer it goes on.
Dont mention that two of them are friends, or talk too much about emotions, or anything that can't be backed up. Be specific eg the last 3 times I've said hello no one has responded or the last group chat everyone was asked their opinion other than me. I also wonder if there is anything you can do to get on better with the worst ones, ask to be put on something where you have to work closely with them individually or ask them for help with something and spend some time talking to them so it's harder for them to claim they just dont know you as well and that's why they arent as friendly.

You havent done anything wrong and you shouldn't have to do this, you should just be able to go to your boss and he should sort it, but I'd be concerned that he is ineffective and he will just say chat to them without you and say 'lonelyflower feels left out' and they will have a good laugh about 'over emotional women' etc. I'd tread carefully

FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 09/01/2021 14:03

How big is your company? Do you have any diversity and inclusion people?
It might also be worth if you have a good relationship with the manager, sounding him out about it before you decide what action to take. Eg asking him does he feel like the tone of the meetings has changed since the staff changed and how does he think you fit in with the team in general eg. If he says 'oh it's a great atmosphere now isnt it, Dave is hilarious with all his 'take my wife' jokes isnt he!' then you will have to be more careful how you talk to him than if he says 'I'm glad you noticed, I've been meaning to ask you how you're feeling about it'

FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 09/01/2021 14:04

And I'd keep a note of every sexist joke and comment, if you have a decent HR. I think asking them to tone that down has to come from your boss though, if you ask it will be 'lonely can't take a 'joke'' and 'other' you even more

Jellycatspyjamas · 09/01/2021 14:05

Can you speak to whoever is chairing the meeting? I’d also be strongly challenging any sexist comments in a meeting I was attending long before I thought about removing myself from it.

Twickerhun · 09/01/2021 14:06

You need to write down examples of what each person says that makes you fell uncomfortable then take the record to your manager. He needs to challenge the culture now

MissTediousGirl · 09/01/2021 14:10

That sounds awful. Although it feels like the easiest way to deal with it would be to remove yourself from the meeting, you shouldn't have to do this and it risks damaging your standing in the company. I'd request 1:1 with your boss and tell him that the tone of the meeting is making you feel uncomfortable and moreover the chatter doesn't seem like a efficient use of time (that gives him a wider reason to fix it). You don't have to provide the solution or suggestion for how he then tackles it but, give him a couple of weeks, and then if he hasn't fixed it, you are then perfectly entitled to take it over his head and leave them to it. Good luck!

Bookworming · 09/01/2021 14:20

I've had to do the same, I raised it with a very serious tone to the manager, it did put a stop to it.

Original poster
Lonelyflower80 · 09/01/2021 15:14

Thanks for the advice all; appreciate it.

Although I get on with my manager one to one, he laughs at the comments in the meetings and he is friends outside of work with the others. I'm not sure what his reaction would be if I brought it up.

The previous woman - a young foreign graduate - on my team before I joined stopped speaking altogether and eventually my manager went to HR to say he couldn't work with her anymore as she didn't speak. I don't know the full details but she left the company shortly after that. I heard from a colleague who has now left that my manager wanted to employ another (male) candidate over me, but my managers manager over ruled him and employed me (he has now left too.)

It is a large global company with a diversity and inclusion programme, but they dont see the day to day microagressions that occur :(

OP posts:
Margaritatime · 09/01/2021 15:39

A practical tip if you propose something in a meeting immediately after the meeting send an email setting out your proposal - you can pre-draft before.

When another team member then starts to propose the same thing very politely say - glad you read my email of xxx and support my proposal.

FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 09/01/2021 15:42

Hi again OP

I've read your update. I really feel for you as I dont think there is an easy solution as your boss is clearly part of the problem as he has already allowed a woman to be ostracized into silence and then managed out because of the silence without acknowledging or realising he is contributing, by laughing at these comments I think he is condoning them.

I would suggest as an interim measure you suggest if it's not done already that you start minuting the meetings formally. And then you can at least get a paper trail that you have suggested x and y on a date and refer back to it if it gets suggested again. And if you make a suggestion and it gets shot down or ignored you can say, for the minutes please can you clarify why you don't think that will work. Or can I have a response to that idea for the minutes. It wont help with the general attitude and sexism though. Otherwise is there any legitimate way you could suggest you record some meetings for some reason? Do you think any of the managers more senior than your boss would able to get involved in a non formal capacity to help?

BackforGood · 09/01/2021 16:19

Please don't just withdraw. That will exacerbate the issue.

Write down some examples over 2 or 3 days, then arrange a meeting with your Manager, and use TeenandTwenties points.

This meeting (with the manager) is the one you should record.
Then you have a record you have raised it, challenged the sexism and the Manager will have to respond.

Brefugee · 09/01/2021 19:31

Get them to record the meetings - use an excuse if they get funny about it that you'd prefer to make notes afterwards or something.

Make a note, if you can, of past instances and raise it with HR. You can, if you feel up to it, have a word with your manager and explain what's happening.

But definitely take it up with HR. Are you in a union?

Splodgetastic · 09/01/2021 19:34

I think you should explain this to your manager one to one. Most likely, he is going to be mortified.

LannieDuck · 09/01/2021 19:39

Absolutely raise the sexism with your manager. That should be the easy part to challenge. If you're a big company with diversity and inclusion initiatives, could you pull some corporate language from a relevant policy to highlight how clearly it's against company policy? If you have a D&I rep, you could seek their guidance if nothing changes.

I also agree with following up your ideas by email - good to have it clearly in print when someone else suggests the same thing.

rookiemere · 09/01/2021 19:40

Please do speak to your manager. I had a similar situation a number of years ago- line manager had loads of witty banter with the boys , but most comments to me were about my non working day and not in a nice way.
Luckily I had a great mentor at the time who persuaded me to raise it in our one to one. He had no idea the impact he was causing and was genuinely surprised about it. I'm sure he was embarrassed, but to his credit he was much more conscious about his words and behaviour going forward.

MissMarpleDarling · 09/01/2021 19:47

Speak to your manager and challenge the behaviour OP. Sounds awful I couldn't work with people like that.

theThreeofWeevils · 09/01/2021 19:48

Sometimes I bring up an idea and get shot down by the guys in the team (not my manager) only for one of the guys to say it in different way / different day and it be accepted by them
It was ever thus, sadly.
punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eHEXGJ_wImQ

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