AIBU to want the retrain as a secondary teacher??

[PinkPiranha11]

I’m a mum of two kids (7 and 4) with no plans to have any more. I’m almost 40. I have a degree in a business/marketing subject and 10 years exp working in communications. Been a SAHM barring some freelance work here and there since 2015. I love history and English lit and am thinking of going back to uni to get a degree in one of those subjects. Would I be CRAZY to want to become a secondary teacher in these subjects? Would I even get a job? Is it awful? Be honest.... everyone I’ve asked in real life thinks it’s a ridiculous idea. One ex-teacher I know said “I’d rather be on benefits” 😕
I’m lucky to have a husband who earns a good salary but works very long hours in his own business. Enlighten me.....

For what it’s worth, I left teaching after 7 years.
I look back and I miss it. I actually miss it a lot!
However, I also remember that when I left I was on my knees, totally stressed, jaded butned out and just miserable. I had a countdown calendar for 6 months before I left and I ticked off every single day before going home.

Rose tinted glasses are a real thing. I loved the children, I lived my colleagues, I loved the humour, the teamwork, the community. Was it enough to save me from the relentless workload and crippling feelings of inadequacy when I fell behind or couldn’t pull off lessons the way I wanted to? No.
I was a good teacher, but no teacher is ever good enough.

Those 7 years damaged me, and even though I have a new career, the legacy of my teaching days is a genuine difficulty understanding what a healthy work-life-balance looks and feels like, and having to learn the basics of how to manage my time at the grand old age of 30 (after having spent my days scheduled, micro-managed and constantly working-to-deadlines for so long, I had lost : never really developed this skill).

I struggled more than most, but also better than many. If you are in any way a perfectionist don’t go near it.

@PinkPiranha11
Some misconceptions are being put out here. You don't always need a degree in the subject you're teaching, many if not all places (especially a SKITT rather than uni) will test your knowledge in the subject. They're looking for adequate rather than proficient, as much of it can be learned as you go.

It is also not absolutely necessary to have experience beforehand, but it does help. Something like a cover supervisor or TA/HLTA would be best, as you get some real experience in both behaviour management and lesson structures. Showing you have good experience in both these areas will be a big positive. Showing knowledge in safeguarding and SEN also works in your favour, as it's a huge part of teaching regardless of your subject.

Otherwise it's down to you personally. Teaching is very intense, are you able to be at work from around 7.30-8am, stay until past 5pm (much later if there's training or parents evening) and then look to be doing marking or lesson planning well into the night/on weekends? It wouldn't just be your own lessons either, you may be asked to cover another subject.

The money side is also not great. Very few subjects now actually 'pay to train'. You may only be looking at a small bursary in history or English. The former in particular is over subscribed as a subject. Pay scale isn't great over the years if you have no want to climb too far up the ladder, and if you do it's even more training.

Despite all this, and the huge issues in teaching, there are many who find their way in it and end up not doing too badly. Having a teaching qualification isn't a bad thing on your CV either.

See if you can get a role as a TA for experience and then see how you feel. I’ve taught for 17 years now and I’m only still doing it because I feel trapped. My sister was an assistant head, very successful but ended up having a nervous breakdown. My partner (very experienced, popular and middle management - also a huge, very muscular man) gets spat at and told to fuck off. I’ve been called a fat bitch. I’m an award winning, outstanding teacher. But I’ve been through that. It’s crap. It’s utterly shit when you have your own kids because you are constantly required to put other kids before your own. I tell all my students they’re to aim much higher than becoming a teacher. We’re the bottom of the professional pile and it will never get any better. It is a fucking awful profession and I’ve worked for great schools, with supportive SLT. I am very good at my job but I still hate it. I’ve seen lovely NQTs bullied and torn to pieces by kids and other staff. But people will suggest this is just a poor example. Believe me it’s far, far more common than you would realise.

English has a shit curriculum but you are very employable across different sectors ans as a tutor. History probably more fun plus you have gcse students who have selected it as an option. Where you live will probably tell you whether SKITT would let you qualify and get jobs in either. Where I am we would rarely take on a non subject graduate so that would limit your employability.

I really enjoy it and have had other jobs too. It’s a job that is very different in different schools. Get some time in schools (when possible) and that will tell you. I really like it and when I am too fed up will go to FE for a less demanding workload and smaller classes.

Oh and I am an English teacher with a first, from an RG uni. English teachers are ten a penny. Ditto history. So you need to be at your absolute best. Unless you want to work for a shitty academy who have bloody NQTs in leadership positions because they’re cheap cannon fodder.

There are plenty of us that love our job still.

What you need to do is work out whether it is right for you or not, regardless of what others say. Which means waiting until schools are back to normal and spending some time in one, in normal working conditions, for a realistic view.

I would also recommend history over English. The hours and hours of extra marking English teachers do over the rest of us is horrendous. History is always popular with the students too.

I’ve been teaching for 11 years (history) and I absolutely love it. Don’t work at weekends or holidays, love the kids and my colleagues are wonderful.
I’m also responsible for the PGCE trainees - happy to answer questions you might have.

I did PGCE training 7 years ago and it was a massive eye opener for me as to how difficult a job can really be. There are great things about it but there are things you would never be expected to put up with in any other job. I put everything I had into it but was miserable and a nervous wreck at the end. I agree with above pp that you can be good but very rarely great. I didn’t stay and went back to my old industry. My DH is a teacher but given recent events I don’t think it’s sustainable and would be happy for him to leave. However I have the deepest respect for all teachers and believe the role they do are a cornerstone of society. If you feel a vocational call to it I would get some experience so it’s not as much of a shock as it was for me and give it a try, but be aware it is unlike other jobs IMO. Best of luck

I retrained as a teacher in my mid 30s. I remember one of the SLT in my second school emphasising that it's a vocation and if you don't love it you probably won't last. I also have vivid memories of at least two different teachers crying in the staff room on my school placements. I should have quit then in hindsight. If you love it (as PP have said, see if you can get some experience in a school first) and really believe in the education system I'd say go for it. Otherwise, I wouldn't.

I think there is truth in the last two posts. It’s a job that demands and you have to love it or it all goes wrong. I started at a new school last December and of the seven of us who started since there are only two left. We are both very happy - you need to be able to enjoy the intensity but leave it behind. I have been sworn at and ignored and walked off from but could barely give you any specifics. I remember the nice cards, chats and thank you moments a little more but even they are irrelevant once I have left the building. I set how long I am prepared to work and although I work hard I keep boundaries. To do this you have to be able to say no, I couldn’t, I will if you give me more time, that’s not possible, how can I do that and have reasonable working conditions etc You can’t be a pleaser or someone who has to have done everything brilliantly - simply not possible. I am great in the moment, ok with the rest of it. I still love it though and there are always some diamonds amount the fellow staff.

I’m a teacher, and while the job absolutely has many elements that are HORRENDOUS, there is still no other job I’d rather do (Covid times excepted for sure).

Realistically, you’d need four years in education and training from now to even start, which would be a huge financial cost. You absolutely need some experience in a school, practically and because that’s needed for most training courses.

If you are financially supported by your husband, you could aim to be part-time when you qualify, which might mitigate some of the all-encompassing workload issues.

Many of the later-life trainees I see in all honesty do a year and then go back to industry, having scratched their itch and established that the grass is not greener. The older ones that stay often set their sights quickly on leadership (less classroom time and more pay).

Thanks everyone, this is all very helpful indeed. Also slightly concerning for the future of the profession! I definitely need to get some experience in school setting - will put some feelers out locally later on this year. History feels like the one I’d be most interested in but I have heard it’s oversubscribed. I think I’ll apply for the history degree course anyway starting in 2022 (it was my degree of choice in sixth form and then my mum put me off saying it was a useless degree, never get a job with it etc etc. I shouldn’t have listened but I suppose I was only 17!) and then see how I feel once doing the course itself. Other career opportunities may abound however I’ve always feel this weird pull towards teaching that I can’t shake off. Although it sounds as if a few weeks in a secondary school may rid me of that idea sharpish. I do worry about the abuse from pupils etc - although I spent a while working in the foster care sector so I’m not completely green about the realities of life for some teens.

Most teens are great even if sometimes testing and rough. I love the kids. It’s a polarising job and maybe one with a life span. I have done quite a few different things and keep coming back to teaching.

I did a pgce, part time through the OU (relevant degree amd a year of subject specialism to do prior to starting the pgce.) Single mother, young children at the time. The last school placement had to be 10 weeks full time. I worked every weekend, 12 hours a day; the whole if the Easter holiday; till midnight every night. It was the hardest I've ever worked. I got graded outstanding, I liked the kids and once I was in the classroom it was brilliant. I could handle the difficult classes. But I never went into mainstream teaching. I didn't want to work 70 hour weeks. I worked part time in my former job and taught part time in a PRU. I liked that pattern. Ended up going full time in the other job for financial reasons but the PRU work was great. The staff were free to concentrate on the wellbeing and achievement of the students as we weren't really being chased to get everyone in the A to C brackets (several did get there though, we had some smart kids.) Some kids went off the rails, some came good- and the ones that came good probably did so nevause of the school. I wish I'd stayed really. Oh and I use the pgce in a sense because I tutor (usually friends kids and for free.) I love to see them start to get better grades. I would never teach in mainstream though. Its not just the workload, its like... Its a crummy working environment. A pp said that youre never good enough and that was my experience too. There's a culture of constantly criticising teachers as its seen to ne the way to make them improve. You are subject to the whims of government ministers who have no clue. School management is very hierarchical and no-ones going to ask you what you think. Holidays- teachera at one school I trained in were required to cime in for a day to do revision right in the middle of Easter hols so they couldn't go away anywhere. Ive been told that happens in summer hols too eg if curriculum needs to be rewritten. Other teachers say the time iff is good so it depends on the school. I don't regret doing the pgce and I might teach again one day but then, I didnt go into debt for it.

Op, if you feel pulled in that direction then give it a go. Just dip your toe in the water and see what happens. It could take you in the direction of teaching or something else will pop up that you hadn't even thought of.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

''I couldn’t teach Business Studies as I’d find it so boring and as a PP said, I think you’d need passion for the subject to teach it at secondary. ''

Be careful as even the design of the new GCSE English has being blasted for being boring and killing the passion in that there is an emphasis on disengaging material and content. Know that in English marking can be a nightmare and the constant assessment, behaviour and lack of support can kill your passion quickly too.

Meh if you want go for it but go in with your eyes wide open. Too often we watch Dangerous Minds or films like it where teacher goes in, cannot control or engage the bad class. By the end they will and it all gets turned around. In reality, you go into the class from hell and they stay like that all year long. Just because YOU are passionate about your subject don't expect them to be. And don't listen to people who tell you that if you keep the lessons engaging that the kids will behave-they won't.

I"m a secondary teacher and my DC are 8 and 5. I trained before they were born though, and I worked various permutations of part time until the youngest was 3, when I went back full time. I find it okay, but I regretted taking HoD responsibilities and am just about to step down from those and be 'just' a line teacher. This is actually in response to my DD getting older and developing a talent for a sport which is involving a lot of dropping off/picking up in the evenings.

Look, it's a busy job much like most other professional jobs. If your DH has some flexibility in his working hours that helps - my DH adjusted his hours slightly so that he could drop the DC to school and a childminder collected them. My mum helped a couple of picks ups. It's important, however, to know that my subject is not a marking heavy one (we do have lots of events though, rehearsals and performances and clubs). History and Especially English will take up a lot of hours of your time in marking. I find it family friendly - the holidays are very valuable with young children. Even if I have to work during the holidays, I can do so in the evenings and still care for my kids during the day.

I also act as a professional tutor and have supported many teachers who have trained with a child or children - they've survived and many have thrived!. One chose to do her NQT part time and take a year and a half over it - that worked well for her.

I would say do it - it's a rewarding career with good holidays and a good pension, and the pay is okay. Do go in with your eyes open - training and NQT years are hard and there are some difficult days with teenagers.

My DS is in Year 7 and some of what he’s being taught in English is enough to kill even the hardest of English lovers. It used to be his favourite subject but the content is very dry and uninspiring.

On another note have you considered school centred teacher training? You’d study towards your QTS but you’d be placed in a school four days a week.

''I would say do it - it's a rewarding career with good holidays and a good pension, and the pay is okay.''

Only nobody makes it to pension or does the full career. And when the good pay starts nobody wants to hire you in favour of cheap staff.

Only nobody makes it to pension or does the full career. And when the good pay starts nobody wants to hire you in favour of cheap staff

Even if you don't do your whole career as a teacher, 10-15 years of the teacher pension is pretty good compared to the same amount of years in many other schemes.

I'm just giving op the perspective of someone who is a secondary school teacher, with children, who doesn't hate it and doesn't think it's the worst career in the world. There are plenty of opposing views on here which reflect those posters' experiences, which is fair enough, but I don't mind it and I also know a number of teachers who have trained a bit later who also quite like it.

After 20 years, I still love it (most days!) You have got to expect a roller coaster though. It's challenging and this is a cliche but there is nothing better when you see a child has finally understood something because of you. You do need the patience of a saint at times and a lot of resilience but a good school with supportive management and colleagues (as well as parents and children) helps a lot. We have a SCITT trainee right now, you could consider that route possibly instead of PGCE but I would recommend working as an LSA for a while first. They are unsung heroes of the school and really see what is going on. They should be paid more but I think there is more career progression now with higher level LSA. That would give you a really good insight. Good luck.

I am a English teacher of 20 years.

Love: The actual teaching
Hate: Everything else.

Go for it.
A passion in the subject is so important.
Good luck 👍

This website has lots of advice on the funding and other things which might be helpful once you are at the point of applying. @https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

Some posters have mentioned having to have school experience before getting a place on a training course, whilst this is an excellent idea and something I would really encourage, the government has said that training providers are not allowed to have this as a requirement for course entry any longer.

I have many friends who were teachers, and every single one of them has either changed career, retired early or, in one case, opted to work as a TA because it's a lot less stressful.

Some of them have been virtually broken by the pressure and stress to the point where one retired early on medical grounds, her MH was so damaged. Another, head of a small rural primary, had a complete breakdown which she swears was triggered by an Ofsted inspection.

I am in awe of teachers. I think the demands and pressures on them today are absurdly onerous and I don't know how anyone does it long term. And I would rather go on the game than teach.