To refuse to go back to the office

[tillytalks]

I’m currently on mat leave and due back to work on the 15th March.

I work in an office with 12 other people.
At present everyone is in the office.

There is no reason why people can’t work from
home, and I’m pretty sure the reason is that management are the type that wouldn’t trust staff to work at home.
It’s a family run business and the owners are quite precious.

I’m really careful, I don’t mix, I follow the rules to the letter.

I’m 34, have mild asthma and I also have a high BMI (more than 30 but less than 40)
I’m working out and eating well so I’m hoping this will reduce.

Even still, I just don’t feel comfortable sitting in an office all day with 12 other people.
The office isn’t big. It’s a long room, and although we can distance, I feel like it would still be crowded.

I know that I wouldn’t be given any preferential treatment to work from home, but I haven’t asked so can’t be too sure.

I’ll be working 3 days per week and my son (who will be 13m) will be in a nursery.

I’m also aware that my son being in nursery puts me at risk which is something else I’ve been thinking over.

AIBU to not want to return?

I see you have 2 issues.

1. You are not sure it's safe for your child at nursery
2. You want to work from home as you feel vulnerable.

Firstly, you are not that vulnerable with mild asthma and BMI around 30. A risk assessment would likely say you need to work in Covid safe environment without F2F contact unless screens in place.

That said - what work do you do and can the role be done in its entirety from home?

Then consider that by time you go back lockdown restrictions likely yo be reduced

So, if everything in place and you still dont want to go, you should resign.

I suspect the issue is nursery more than work.

After all, if you don't want to send your baby to nursery - you can't go to work - and equally you cant either from home with a baby do I can see your employer's POV.

You could ask them to consider furlough?

Your boss is breaking the law yanbu.

You want to be told that you can work from home and not send your child to nursery. You probably know that your employer won’t want that, so you want to be told you have a case for constructive dismissal. If your office is Covid secure, and the rules stay the same as they are now, you’re best off looking for a new job.

@TitsOot4Xmas that screenshot clearly says asthma, and if you look at the link I sent it clearly also specifies a BMI over 30. And the screenshot you shared is Clinically Vulnerable NOT Clinically Extremely Vulnerable (which does specify severe asthma and steroids etc).

@Tistheseason17

I see you have 2 issues.

1. You are not sure it's safe for your child at nursery
2. You want to work from home as you feel vulnerable.

Firstly, you are not that vulnerable with mild asthma and BMI around 30. A risk assessment would likely say you need to work in Covid safe environment without F2F contact unless screens in place.

That said - what work do you do and can the role be done in its entirety from home?

Then consider that by time you go back lockdown restrictions likely yo be reduced

So, if everything in place and you still dont want to go, you should resign.

I suspect the issue is nursery more than work.

After all, if you don't want to send your baby to nursery - you can't go to work - and equally you cant either from home with a baby do I can see your employer's POV.

You could ask them to consider furlough?

There are thousands of women who are WFH whilst looking after a baby.

The OP would be acting within the guidelines to WFH and send her child to nursery, as EY settings are open to all below school age as normal.

@TitsOot4Xmas

My options were to end my mat leave early and take my full holiday allowance, or add two weeks onto the end and then the remaining 4 weeks would be carried over into the new holiday year but paid on my new part time hours.

Are you sure? That’s not legal.

Yes. I’m sure.

I checked it with ACAS too.☹️

They've put cover measure is place . WFH can be a nightmare for business a lot of people think it's a simple as just putting your laptop on your dinning room table .
There's a lot of issue about GPRD employer liability are you insured to WFH people don't realise they could be invalidating there own house insurance WHF.

@Eileithyiaa

For the people who have commented on this thread that the OP is BU, do you WFH? Or is it impossible in your job to WFH?

I think there is a lot of bitterness towards people who are able to work from home and an attitude of "I can't WFH so why the fuck should you?"

I’ve been in work throughout. WFH around 2 days a week when possible. Clinical sites.

Have undertaken 4 office moves in less than a year. Overseen about 2500 risk assessments for staff. Anyone with a shielding letter is at home. The majority working. Anyone in high risk categories has had adjustments to their role to enable them to work. It’s been an enormous effort to ensure staff safety and continuing patient care, treatment, clinical trials, immunisation........

I checked it with ACAS too.☹️

I’ve 20 years in HR/employment law. They cannot reduce your built up entitlement to leave during maternity or require you to return early or lose leave. It is not legal.

Here's the NHS link that explains it: although they state BMI over 40 so not sure why Asthma UK say 30...

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/

[quote WoolyMamamoth]**@TitsOot4Xmas* that screenshot clearly says asthma, and if you look at the link I sent it clearly also specifies a BMI over 30. And the screenshot you shared is Clinically Vulnerable NOT* Clinically Extremely Vulnerable (which does specify severe asthma and steroids etc).[/quote]
That’s the high risk list, not clinically vulnerable, and it states CHRONIC asthma.

Not everyday asthma. The guidance behind it stipulates steroid controlled or required a hospital admission for it in the last 12 months.

Can’t you find a grandmother to teach to suck eggs? This has been my bread and butter work for the last year.

[quote WoolyMamamoth]Here's the NHS link that explains it: although they state BMI over 40 so not sure why Asthma UK say 30...

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/[/quote]
Yes. HIGH RISK. Your own link.

High risk is DIFFERENT to clinically vulnerable.

CEV get shielding letters. High risk don’t.

We’re following NHS/public health and government guidance. Not Asthma U.K., who have no horse in this rate and frankly could say anything they like.

You’re getting wound up by a lot of people on the thread speculating & naysaying about your work environment
It’s your responsibility to ask office what are the COVID secure measures are
You cannot simply refuse to return,you need to remain engaged and have provisions made to discuss potential return

It’s not constructive dismissal,it really isn’t. It Simply hasnt got to that and it doesn’t need to if you & employer remain engaged

Be open,be transparent,it’s ok to discuss your anxieties. Understandably you have concerns

@2020quelhorreur

You want to be told that you can work from home and not send your child to nursery. You probably know that your employer won’t want that, so you want to be told you have a case for constructive dismissal. If your office is Covid secure, and the rules stay the same as they are now, you’re best off looking for a new job.

Nail on head.

No employer is going to want to pay you to look after your own child. If that is what you want, retrain as a nursery worker.

*High risk is DIFFERENT to clinically vulnerable.

CEV get shielding letters. High risk don’t.* -

People at moderate risk (clinically vulnerable) -

You are using the term clinically vulnerable when you mean clinically extremely vulnerable (ie. shielding).

In your circumstances I would find some way to report the business for failing to comply with Covid guidelines/rules and do it promptly.

Given that you're not actually working at the premises at the moment and not due back for another 2 months I would have thought that suspicion would be unlikely to fall on you as being the source of the report.

I'm really not one for snitching but I really feel for 12 people being obliged to get to work each day (with some no doubt using public transport) and then sit indoors with 11 other colleagues for the entire workday, because the employers don't want Covid to affect their business any more than it already does, if you believe they could be working from home.

What would you plan on doing with your child if you work from home? You won’t be able to work and take care of a 13 month old will you?

Is being a SAHP an option for a while?

There has been plenty of evidence that Covid can be spread via airborne transmission, where 2m desk spacing will not stop transmission, especially if you actually have to move from your desk during the day. I’d personally not want to work in a so called Covid secure office, especially with the new variant.

jkms.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3346/jkms.2020.35.e415

www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/122220_covidupdate.html

Another option - can you asked to be furloughed? Would they agree to that?

@SATSmadness

I agree . I guess it would be the health and safety executive.

We are only having 3 in the office at any one time and using flexible furlough and working from home .

It can be done .

A lot of people on thread who aren’t working out of home are winding the op up
It’s of no relevance what someone on here who doesn’t go to work would do
But i suspect issue is you don’t want to go back to work and are looking for an excuse
You do not have a shielding letter, you’re not in extremely vulnerable category

@DoubleDessertPlease

Yes . My neice was working in a “covid secure” office . But ended up catching it with no symptoms. She took it home and the whole family went down with it .6 people .

Apparently there were 12 in the office who had it out of 30.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

But why should her employers not be adhering to the guidance for their staff ? Work from home if you can ?

I'm in exactly the same position, also returning in March to an office of 70 people. (Majority of which could work from home but company don't allow it) Just really hoping that things would have settled down by then.