Does people really like innovative new colleagues?

[Sandalison]

So this woman (let’s call her Lucy) is new-ish in the office (since 18 months ish). She is friendly and confident. She is always talking in meetings and stepping forward with suggestions, ideas, new information, etc. She is the ‘new and fresh’ person, who has been given a special project, made a big success of it, delivers lots of training and also seems to send lots of emails. She likes to make jokes about her “unruly” hair (gorgeous and curly) and “unhealthy dependence on lists” (which I interpret as showing off about how ultra-busy and ultra-organised she is.)

The bosses love her, and so it seems does everyone else. Eveyone except me! She reeeeally gets under my skin.
Now, Lucy isn’t even in my team, so it’s not like I’m in direct competition with her, but nevertheless I have come to terms with the fact that I am just being a jealous cow here.

To emphasise: I KNOW I am a jealous cow!!

What I am wondering is, am I alone in my bovinity (and suck as a human) or do other people feel the same way about the Lucys in their offices ( I still suck but feel a bit less like stabbing her with a pencil).

YABU - you’re on your own hun.
YANBU- yeah Lucy annoys all of us.

@Boopear
"I've been here 10 years and am still trying"
That is absolutely amazing, I must admit I have never been in a job where I managed to sustain enthusiasm for such duration. Do you care greatly about what your employer represents or is it more an inner motivation to do the best you can?

@DAC21 I sometimes amaze (and question) myself. Yes, two key drivers really - I really support what the employer does (to be a little vague, we support global healthcare providers so basically help to stop people dying) and I also know how to make change happen - it is an organisation based on personal power, so as my network grows, trust in me grows and my understanding of change challenges matures, I have been able to achieve more & more the longer I am here. I do sometimes feel that I am entrenched here for ever, but it is that sort of place (also lots & lots of "we have done it like this for ever" combined with "we must do this because of regulations..". Fun)

This thread is getting a bit toxic!
Doesn't much of it boil down to self confidence and self belief? These traits tend to be rewarded in the workplace. I have witnessed people coming back from maternity leave to be side-lined and it can be tough to fight your corner. Change is messy. Personally I prefer to work as a freelancer to avoid the politics and my idea of a nightmare would be to work for the same employer for many years following the same processes.

@Booper
That must be amazing to have found an employer that does things you also stand for, I seriously envy you for that. At the moment I am almost ashamed to be an employee of the organisation I work for, because their top management is so awful that it makes me feel rubbish that I give my name and expertise to a place like this. :(

I have older friends who remember trying to implement computer systems in the 1980s: they say it was a daily struggle with some people moaning that computers would never catch on and it was a waste of time and what was wrong with a filing cabinet and typewriters etc etc

The important point you're missing is that offices evolved to become computerised. It was a natural and gradual evolution, not an implemented change. Of course, someone had to bring in the first computer, but no one bounced in saying 'Right, we're going digital next week and 500 of you will be made redundant because the computer is faster than these typewriters.'

I can imagine what it’s like working for you. Poor sods.

Thankfully, no one works 'for' me. I gave up managing people years ago because I was continually demoralised by having to protect my team from the worst effects of the Lukes and Lucies.

@DAC21 The organisational objectives/ethics are a real essential for me. I actually left for a year four years ago (long story), but came back when I realised just how important this was to me. We're not perfect by any means, but at least we all take pride in what we are here for. It's now one of my "must haves" in assessing any potential new employers (in my imaginary leaving scenario!). Maybe start researching potential new employers that may fit you better? It's not a great time to leave, but scoping out possibilities always good for the soul...

"It's not a great time to leave, but scoping out possibilities always good for the soul..."

Good advice! :)

@SomewhatBored Interesting points!! Of course Covid is an example of where working practices did change almost overnight achieving digital transformation - for better or worse - that an army of Lucys and Lukes could never achieve....

I'm like the lucy you describe. I know some people hate that but over the years I decided this is who I naturally am and I don't want to change.
Work out what riles you about her, I am sure once you work that out you be able to move forward with her

[quote Sugarbread]@SomewhatBored Interesting points!! Of course Covid is an example of where working practices did change almost overnight achieving digital transformation - for better or worse - that an army of Lucys and Lukes could never achieve....[/quote]
Yes, indeed. The interesting thing is that, whenever I have seen a poll about working from home, at least 75% of people say they prefer it. In pre-Covid times, people at my company often asked about working from home but were routinely turned down. Now, most people are working from home and, in fairness to my company, it's been organised quickly and well. But only because they had to, or face endless absence due to self-isolation, shielding etc.

An opportunity for positive change and innovation that would have been possible for some years past, but was never embraced by the Lukes and Lucies ...

It might seem a strange concept to you, but some of us just want to do our jobs to the best of our ability, without being messed around and disrupted by people who don't have a clue about the business making changes for the sake of it - or rather, making changes for the sake of bringing themselves glory, only to move on before everything falls apart - changes we know full well, from experience, have been made and reversed umpteen times before

I think that it can be assumed incorrectly that those people who have worked steadily for a company a long time have no interest in improvement or are resistant to change, and they then don't get asked to contribute or the chance to give an opinion, and are excluded. When actually they could add useful insight into things which have been tried before if the idea has come up again, in terms of what didn't work last time we tried this or that. Like another poster said, different time/different circumstances/different people the idea might now work well, but why not use past insight and experience and not just make assumptions about long-standing employees which could be very wrong. As with so many things, communication is the key!

Im a Lucy, and like @Boopear im a Long standing employee in an organisation that aligns with my personal goals (we save lives too, but not in a medical field)

A few months ago I transferred to a new team who had just recruited an amazing Lucy, and we now have another highly motivated Lucy who is returning from secondment. I think that there is a risk that there might be a clash, and do fear a Lucy—plosion. At least it will be efficient.

Well this thread is a decent pointer to some of the reasons for the UK’s woeful productivity record.

Agree with Jassy. Particularly after reading this:

I think that it can be assumed incorrectly that those people who have worked steadily for a company a long time have no interest in improvement or are resistant to change, and they then don't get asked to contribute or the chance to give an opinion, and are excluded. When actually they could add useful insight into things which have been tried before

Yes, WHY don’t businesses seek permission to investigate new projects and initiatives from the old guard - their employees - before going ahead?

Well, it might be because they’ll be met with grumble grumble if it ain’t broke don’t fix it?

Or because they take the view that if these people could be bothered coming up with suggestions or ideas, they’d have already done so? Instead they bleat “I just want to do my job, clock off and go home”, then moan when a Luke or a Lucy gets credit for actually delivering something.

Or because, like some posters here, some of the ‘people who have worked steadily for a company for a long time’ associate any new idea or process improvement with overnight change for change’s sake and inevitable redundancy so will attempt to thwart change at every turn for reasons of self interest? I felt sorry for the PP who had to instal a new cloud-based records system at the law firm she worked at. It sounds as if she prevailed though.

You can be excellent at your job, have lots of ideas, achieve a lot, but still have some trait that others do not like.

YANBU to feel how you do. We don't have to make friends at work.

Yes, WHY don’t businesses seek permission to investigate new projects and initiatives from the old guard - their employees - before going ahead?

Well, it might be because they’ll be met with grumble grumble if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

You have this the wrong way round. The grumbling and complaining generally happens because the people doing the job are not consulted. A recent change in my workplace resulted in some of us being physically unable to do our work because a system we used had been removed. No warning - we logged in one morning and it had gone. This then meant the person implementing the change had to hare round madly finding ways round this, while we were stalled on a routine task we have to complete every day. They 'hadn't realised we used it' All of this could have been avoided if someone had sent round details of what the change would involve, and asked the people doing the work what the impacts of the change would be before bringing it in.

Or because they take the view that if these people could be bothered coming up with suggestions or ideas, they’d have already done so? Instead they bleat “I just want to do my job, clock off and go home”, then moan when a Luke or a Lucy gets credit for actually delivering something.

No, it's because they don't listen to suggestions until they are presented by the Luke or Lucy. You can suggest something till you're blue in the face and be ignored. It's similar to when you're in a meeting (as a woman) and say something; it's ignored, but then a man says the same thing, even using the same words, ten minutes later and everyone applauds. I flagged an issue about six times over two years and was fobbed off. A Luke swooped in 'oooh, this is wrong' and it was changed almost immediately, to what I'd been saying for the last two years.

If you are seen as too old, or the wrong sex, or simply not trendy enough, you might as well be invisible.

I think that you need to depersonalise this debate. You keep bringing it back to your own individual experiences, which you are clearly bitter about, and extrapolating that to apply to all the Lukes and Lucys of the world. Maybe look for a new job? You might be happier.

@Iamthewombat

I think that you need to depersonalise this debate. You keep bringing it back to your own individual experiences, which you are clearly bitter about, and extrapolating that to apply to all the Lukes and Lucys of the world. Maybe look for a new job? You might be happier.

Well, I can only talk about my own experiences. I am not going to put words in others' mouths.

Believe it or not, I enjoy my job - when I'm able to get on with it without Luke/Lucy disruptions - so I don't want to find another job. Even if I did, this would hardly be the time to start looking for one, with redundancies being made left, right and centre.

God, it’s exhausting like having a new puppy. For the rest of us, who are a bit older and for whom work is just one part of your life and a means to pay the bills, it raises the bar unnecessarily.

Exactly this! My new boss is like this, similar age to me, like an annoying bloody puppy. Sadly, lots of her innovative bright new ideas are not useful and seem only to create more work for us, plus she treats the team like her personal PAs. She has little experience of what we’re doing and doesn’t listen to those who do, so tried and tested and PROVEN methods are being ignored. It’s a bit scary and a lot annoying.

The grumbling and complaining generally happens because the people doing the job are not consulted.

I’ve been involved with various change processes - both those where engagement with the people affected was honestly very poor and the decisions had already been made, but also those where huge effort was made to get people’s input. Invariably, at the end of the latter processes, there was a group of people who moaned that they hadn’t inputted into the process. Apparently they felt they should be able to do it without expending any thought, time or effort, without attending any forums or discussion groups, filling in any online forms, or in any other way engaging with the process.

@JassyRadlett

The grumbling and complaining generally happens because the people doing the job are not consulted.

I’ve been involved with various change processes - both those where engagement with the people affected was honestly very poor and the decisions had already been made, but also those where huge effort was made to get people’s input. Invariably, at the end of the latter processes, there was a group of people who moaned that they hadn’t inputted into the process. Apparently they felt they should be able to do it without expending any thought, time or effort, without attending any forums or discussion groups, filling in any online forms, or in any other way engaging with the process.

It's the first kind you describe that results in complaints.

Again, I can't speak for others, but I respond religiously to consultation/feedback requests on the all-too-rare occasions they happen.

And sometimes, it's the simple things that go wrong in my experience. Removal of systems, as in my example - all it would take would be a few simple questions:

1. How often do you use X?
2. What do you use X for?

If the answer to the first is 'daily' then clearly either X needs to stay or question 2 needs to be used to find an alternative - before X is decommissioned.

It's the first kind you describe that results in complaints.

As I said, in my experience across a number of organisations and processes result in complaints.

But I do agree that change is often managed poorly in organisations and that as a country, management skills are way below where they need to be.

That’s not the fault of the ‘Lucys’ and ‘Luke’s’ though.