Sorry, but £80k a year in London ^really is^ a large salary

[nickymanchester]

So I was just reading the "Unpopular Opinions" threads and I noticed more than one poster saying that £80k a year really isn't a lot of money in London or the SE.

What with being locked down again and not having much to do I thought I'd have a look at the actual figures as I had no idea which side of that argument is correct.

For full time workers who work in London, the median (average) pay is £39,500 (men £42,700, women £35,800).

If a person is earning £80k a year in London then they are on the 87th percentile. Although, if you're a woman that places you in the top 95%

(87th percentile means that you earn more than 87% of all people - ie you're in the top 13%).

Of course, areas of London are very different so I split London down as shown below.

The practical upshot is that, well, if you work in the City of London then I guess you could argue that £80k isn't necessarily a large salary.

You might even be able to get away with this if you work in Tower Hamlets. But elsewhere - not really.

.............................................75th.......Gender

Area......................Median...Prcnt......Pay Gap
City of London.....57,361....89,492....27.9%
Tower Hamlets.... 49,728....72,254....20.6%
Westminster.........43,597....64,038....15.7%
Southwark............41,948....59,816....11.4%
Camden................39,837....53,950....20.9%
Hammersmith......39,676....54,132....14.9%
Islington................39,312....59,587....8.1%
Lambeth...............37,866....55,458....15.3%
Hackney................36,748....46,540....9.4%
Waltham Forest....35,651....45,552....23.5%
Hillingdon.............35,183....52,390....5.5%
Lewisham.............34,913....46,608....-2.5%
Brent.....................34,866....48,064....8.5%
Hounslow.............34,809....50,528....5.2%
Richmond.............34,726....47,070....25.4%
Kensington...........34,445....47,242....4.4%
Croydon................34,086....45,146....18.8%
Havering...............33,821....46,249....-15.0%
Greenwich............33,181....45,427....6.0%
Kingston...............33,030....49,150....18.7%
Haringey...............32,812....44,840....-11.8%
Newham...............32,292....49,618....-1.8%
Sutton...................32,167....43,898....-2.4%
Wandsworth.........31,938....45,786....7.0%
Bromley................31,777....44,824....10.7%
Ealing....................31,418....45,001....-6.0%
Merton..................30,607....48,381....-11.0%
Barking.................30,482....39,988....13.5%
Redbridge.............30,306....45,157....-5.7%
Barnet...................30,092....47,362....9.3%
Enfield...................29,895....40,586....11.8%
Bexley....................28,174....39,614....11.3%
Harrow...................26,998....43,077....17.3%

And for comparison with people outside of London:-

London.................39,556....57,975
South East............31,647...44,704
Scotland...............30,820....41,855
East.......................29,895....41,449
North West...........29,099....40,820
West Midlands.....28,730....40,186
East Midlands......28,704....40,004
South West...........28,605....39,645
Yorkshire...............28,023....38,865
Wales....................27,966....38,392
Northern Ireland...27,487....37,903
North East............27,113....37,872

All figures are ONS latest 2020 figures extracted from NOMIS. Gender pay gap is for full time employees only.

[quote nickymanchester]@roarfeckingroarr

Just because something is above average doesn't make it great / a lot:

But it's not just being "above average" - £80k is more than double the average wage (unless you work in the City)

A woman who earns £80k is earning more than 95% of all women who work in London.

And that's just full-time workers. If you add in part-time workers then she would earn more than 99% of all women in London.

Imagine walking down the street (pre-covid of course) and seeing all the women there and knowing that for every hundred women you see you will earn more than 99 of them - sometimes very much more, usually double what they are earning.

And you think that this doesn't mean that you are earning a lot?[/quote]
Just because you get more than others doesn't mean it's a lot. If I gave everyone a slice of bread per day and you two slices. Would you say this is a large amount of food?
Nobody is crying about poverty on 80k. But a large salary to me would be comfortably affording a family home, a couple of good holidays per year as a family and private school after school activities. That's what I think a large salary should afford you wherever you live.
Therefore IMO it's not a large London salary

OP, many people of course earn less. But in my experience, it's not a large salary unless you are living alone, without dependents.

Many people (including women), earn 6 figure salaries and are living an average lifestyle. This is if course subjective, but based on my experiences.

[quote nickymanchester]@Katjolo

It's a good salary but not a huge salary for London. Also depends on where in London you are based.

I'm sorry but it really is a huge salary for London - especially if you're a woman.

I'm comparing this to all full time workers who work in London.

What are your comparators if you don't think that £80k is a large salary?[/quote]
I don't know why you keep bringing up 'for a woman'.

I want to earn a good salary for a person. I don't do a woman's job and I'd like to compete with the men in suits, thank you. I don't want my wages compared against those of women only - I think that does me a disservice.

The simple matter is £80k doesn't go as far as you might think it does in London. It's not that £80k is a huge salary for London, it's that most salaries in London are shit for London. You can live comfortably off £40k in many cities. In London, you'll probably rent a house share in Zone 3 at best, maybe zone 4.

However, there's something magical about the place, otherwise we wouldn't all still be here, dreaming of houses in Zone 1 we'll never be able to afford.

Is this after taxes? Because that 80k goes down to about 55k after taxes which doesn't travel nearly as far as you'd think. It's good. But it's not like you're sliding down rainbows straight into the bucket of gold coins.

How would you buy a house in London on £80k though! ?

£80k is about mine and DH's salary combined .

I manage to save quite a bit over the year. We have a little flat in a naice area but we want a house with a garden. We don't plan to stay in London to get it. Certainly can't afford a house where we are currently (£1m+) and DD will probably go to University so...

but the usual "we're only rich compared to the poor, compared to the super rich we are in dire poverty so actually we aren;t well off at all" bollocks will be spouted all over this thread
You called it on page 1.

Loads of posters trying to argue that high salaries aren't that high because once they've paid their bills and childcare there's not loads left over.

cyclingmad

What planet do you love one where 25yr old are earning £80k and then by 45 they are eon 200k. Thats either some very niche jobs but its not the norm!

Sorry if this is news but this is typical magic circle or US corporate law firm and leading US investment banking in front office roles I believe. Starting salaries to attract top talent in say Slaughter & May or Goldman Sachs etc will possibly be more. It was different back in the day! Caveat I don’t know what juniors are on these days but I guess it’s very respectable if obligatory selling out of soul and time! Or it used to be back in the day as all nighters were often de rigueur and standard practice.

Check out www.legalcheek.com/2019/07/open-thread-what-are-magic-circle-firms-really-paying-their-newly-qualified-lawyers/

By the way do you know what some UK corporate CEOs take home as base salaries excluding share options and perks?

The global financial markets have their own salary calculations but still nothing next to someone who kicks a ball around occasionally!

Companies like JP Morgan pay graduates 50K. You can buy a house in Zone 4/5 SE London, nice, not 'stabby ' ' area for £375K-£400K - 14 minute train ride to London Bridge.

80k in London or SE is not a large salary

@LarryUnderwood

Its a high salary, London or otherwise. But it's not a high enough salary to live a particularly lavish lifestyle if you have a family and it is your main household income. That doesn't mean its not a good salary. I think it is the kind of level that allows for privileges that probably don't seem special if you have them, but if you don't it seems amazing. E.g. the capacity to save a bit, to get takeaways or go out for dinner without having to save in advance. Not worry too much if your boiler breaks. Etc. When you are comfortable financially its really easy and understandable.to lose sight of the fact that many people don't have the same sense of ease. It doesn't mean that you are unfathomably rich, or that you can buy whatever you want. Its just a bit easier. My DH and I both have good salaries and we have a comfortable lifestyle - old car, 1 holiday a year (not in a hotel, rental or camping). We don't feel 'rich' at all, but we have the capacity to save for the things we want and it not to be unattainable. when I was a kid, things like a car, holidays, weekly takeaway etc - they were completely out of reach, saving or not. So to me back then, I would have said that future me is absolutely loaded.

A definition of rich I heard is when you don't have to make choices. You don't have to choose between a new bike or a family weekend away. You don't have to choose between going to a restaurant for a friend's birthday or seeing a film you like. You can always have both.

Basically moral of the story is be a celeb, kick a ball or get lucky as a fin tech start up and hope some unicorn venture capitalists buy you out or one of the tech giants. Anything medi and bio tech should be a banker if it works and truly innovative!

London base salaries need to keep up with rip off cost of living or we end up like Switzerland with supposedly high salaries but struggle to live very well! I don’t know how normal people get by especially those with families.

I am 25, my friends who have bought flats in London work in software development (x2), real estate and big 4 - all of them bought alone although big 4 employee’s flat is zone 3 as she earns less, the others are zone 2. Another friend is going to start a job at a hedge fund soon and hopes to buy a flat shortly after with his partner who works in pharma. I work in the public sector and had to buy in the Home Counties and constantly feel like the poor friend because I earn half what most of them do!

Actually I just remembered another one from our group owns her flat as well so make that software x3. It’s a lucrative industry it would seem!

A definition of rich I heard is when you don't have to make choices. You don't have to choose between a new bike or a family weekend away. You don't have to choose between going to a restaurant for a friend's birthday or seeing a film you like. You can always have both.

That is not rich, that is comfortable. Many of us who didn't have much and found it difficult to make ends meet will reach that stage as we get older. Rich is far beyond anything like that.

Basically it’s great but not in a unusual rip off central London home ownership context!

In a nutshell. Think most people on here either aren’t reading or aren’t understanding your OP @nickymanchester!

The point about women @waydownwego is that we live in a society where there is a pay discrepancy between men and women . It’s relevant when the main audience of this forum is women.

Of course it’s a large salary. I lived in Bromley (still a London borough) for years earning below the national average, still managed my rent/bills etc on a single income.

Rich is when your bank balance liquid trust funds grows faster than your spending. And your spending is only limited by your imagination. Apart from expensive toys - private jets and fine art etc you don’t care for price tags. That’s rich I guess. Perhaps someone here may fit this description as you never know these days as true rich are discrete but those who like to show wealth probably are a few levels down this apex food chain.

Just to add another definition - I knew I was financially comfortable when I stoped looking at prices in the supermarket and just bought whatever I wanted each week. That was such a luxury to me at first.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Rich is when your bank balance liquid trust funds grows faster than your spending. And your spending is only limited by your imagination. Apart from expensive toys - private jets and fine art etc you don’t care for price tags. That’s rich I guess. Perhaps someone here may fit this description as you never know these days as true rich are discrete but those who like to show wealth probably are a few levels down this apex food chain.

Not at all. Definition of rich is subjective.

@Throckmorton

I live in London. That is a large salary!

I live in London It really isn't - unless you have no mortgage to pay.

I think it's a high salary even in London.

For those commenting on the household income... Well if you wanted a particular lifestyle you wouldn't only have one partner working? If you have two adults on this type of salary that's very comfortable.

There are plenty high paying sectors in London, I was on this salary at 27 and I'm not a barrister, financial services etc.

We both earn well but we wouldn't live to the same level we do now if only one of us worked.

@Starllyow

Just to add another definition - I knew I was financially comfortable when I stoped looking at prices in the supermarket and just bought whatever I wanted each week. That was such a luxury to me at first.

I had a moment like this when I was out and I stopped picking the cheapest drink on the menu and just got what I wanted to drink. It was a significant moment for me

Depends who you mix with. Pre Kids DH and I both worked with Ultra High Networth people, DH still does and to some of those clients, £80,000 is nothing. DH and I combined don't earn that. The business gives you lots of perks, like travel and gifts, great meals etc, but you don't get paid much esp. for hours worked.

This thread is just a constant refrain of people missing the point.

MOST people in London do not earn anywhere near 80k. Therefore it is a high salary, even "for London". It doesn't matter that you, personally don't think it goes far. It is still a lot.

What on earth do you all think retail, hotel staff, restaurant staff, cleaners are getting paid? Is it that hard to grasp? What about teachers, nurses, social workers? Most people do not earn salaries like that, despite living in London.

Some of you really need your bubbles burst