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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

repeating years at schools? Covid

60 replies

mumwon · 04/01/2021 11:30

Disclaimer I grew up in a country where repeating school years were commonplace.
I am beginning to wonder if because so many dc have missed out on education & fallen so far behind if there should be a system of allowing repeating school years
This would entail gov funding extra (temp) classrooms to do this is if this means in some areas that classroom sizes will need to be increased & funding for teachers - some classes might need to be expanded.
Specifically in some deprived areas where many families do not have access to the internet or where individual families don't or dc who have education issues anyway (note not just SEN but dc who struggle one way or another)
It would entail a major rethink & attitude change & investment but the way we are going this might be an answer to stop dc being disadvantaged.

OP posts:
Dinosaurcatcher · 04/01/2021 12:56

My child has gone back to repeat Y12 instead of joining Y13 (last September). She didn’t feel (and I agree) that she wouldn’t be able to have her best shot at her A levels with the amount of education she received last year.

megletthesecond · 04/01/2021 13:00

I wish there was the money for eveyone to repeat a year. Or at the very least, summer schools.

Marzipan12 · 04/01/2021 13:03

I think there should be an option for secondary pupils to retake a year. Every year in secondary is important not just exam years and they have already missed an entire term.

ktp100 · 04/01/2021 13:06

Not sure they can afford 4 grand plus per child to do this, in honesty.

If they do I really hope it's not a blanket ruling - my son will literally die of boredom if he has to repeat year 3. Millions of kids aren't behind at all, they shouldn't have to repeat.

nosswith · 04/01/2021 13:07

I understand where you are coming from, but in essence as there are 14 school years, you are expecting 7% more teachers, support staff, extra premises (or use of places such as village and church halls), almost none of which could be provided by September.

ConfusedcomMum · 04/01/2021 13:09

I don't know if this helps you but I grew up in a very multicultural part of London in the 1980s. It wasn't uncommon for kids to visit their ancestral country for up to 6 months, come back and catch up very quickly. We had refugee kids who in a matter of weeks would be speaking English and would soon be reading and writing. I myself started one term late in primary visiting my parents birthplace which really matured and humbled me. I met relatives who told me the oral history of our family, saw people who had nothing getting by, some without limbs.

My parents are immigrants and home life was busy with a big family so not much time for homework, no money for a tutor etc. Yet I and these other immigrant children did really well at school. This pandemic will be maturing children in a similar manner and I think you may be surprised at how adaptable and resilient they are. I really feel for those in exam years but I really can't envision a situation where the vast majority of children don't catch up.

Marzipan12 · 04/01/2021 13:12

@ktp100 I agree. While I think repeating a year should be an option for secondary pupils who need it it certainly should take be for all. My DS year 8 would also be bored retaking a year but many kids are performing much lower than their potential so it should be an option for them

hammeringinmyhead · 04/01/2021 13:14

@ramblingsonthego

What happens to the students who are due to start reception this year? Are we moving to a compulsory start age of 6 from now on?

What about nurseries and childcare facilities who have already got people filling in the spaces from September for the children due to move up to school. Who loses out on this? The new children or the ones who should be leaving? Thus leaving thousands of parents struggling to get childcare for the next year.

What happens to colleges and universities? Do they just not have a student cohort in September? This will send most colleges and universities to the wall financially so even more competition for places the following year as I would estimate at least 60% would go bankrupt with no fees for a year.

The theory is nice, the practicality is just impossible.

All of this! Slinging a mobile classroom in the playground does nothing.
mumwon · 04/01/2021 14:08

I did not suggest every dc but those who for one reason or another who have fallen seriously behind & as pp has said not every parent has the educational financial or emotional or time resources to support their dc - my concern is that dc are going to be disadvantaged & those who already are more so.
It needs a thorough discussion on what is feasible & how to help & to think every solution through
As I have said I don't think one size fits all & not every dc will need this but some may - we need to consider all options - & whatever option the government might do will have a financial cost - if they do nothing or not enough targeted help it will have major impact on the quality of lives of those dc who it most seriously affects.
I think they will have to close all schools at some point soon - its leading that way, sadly. & regardless of how much support individual teachers (covid affect notwithstanding) it will affect some groups more than others

OP posts:
AppleBarrel · 04/01/2021 14:37

I don't think it works staying back unless you have similar numbers moving ahead.

Some years (GCSE for eg) lots might want to stay back to gain an advantage.
But maybe most of Y6 would want to move forward to secondary, but most of y7 would want to stay back.

You'd end up with hugely unbalanced cohorts.

I don't like the idea of only learning "core" things either. Most teachers will be teaching core concepts through the medium of different subjects and activities.

What about making the school day a little bit longer?

My 13 year old finishes at 3pm every day, and there aren't any after school sports etc.
Tagging an extra half hour lesson on every day might be less of a logistical difficulty than repeating a whole year.

mumwon · 04/01/2021 15:06

@AppleBarrel I wonder what teachers view on this would be?

OP posts:
mumwon · 29/01/2021 15:17

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55845207
so it looks like EPI Education Policy Institute may be advising this as a possibility
Whilst the government are suggestion 3 week summer school catch up - discussed on another thread on mn - with many posters asking who will be doing the teaching as the teachers have been working full out whether online or in school with key workers dc.
I think are government is going to have to put a lot more money into this across the board for ALL education levels to help everybody catch up & I suspect they will need extra classrooms or a way of staggering classes or methods of teaching either by shift system or more online
Some dc will/may be OK but quite a large proportion/minority will have fallen behind & will need more than a little extra help in the classrooms or a few extra weeks in summer.

OP posts:
mumwon · 29/01/2021 15:18

sorry 4 week catchup

OP posts:
FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 29/01/2021 15:33

It's a hard one. I think some for some school years it wont matter and some years it may be crucial. We first need to see how many children are actually behind and how far behind they are before making any major decisions. We like loads of other parents are working and cant home school to a great degree but we are doing he basics of maths and english and a bit of reading and I think that will be enough for younger primary school children. Older children can do a bit more self directed work and if they are not bothered about this then they might not actually wsnt to repeat a year if this meant they were away from their friends etc. Remember particularly vulnerable children can also go into school currently though I'm not sure of the levels of engagement with this. But if this did happen it would be a logistical nightmare to plan, build temporary classrooms and get enough teachers as well as assessing which children were behind due to covid.

peak2021 · 29/01/2021 16:06

I don't think it is practical at all. The suggestion of focusing on core subjects to ensure they are caught up is the best one of those mentioned above.

pitterpatterrain · 29/01/2021 16:14

It’s hard, the challenge seems to be the variability that is exacerbated now across classes and across pupils in those classes

Some due to schools (excellent versus patchy home learning provision) some due to personal situation of the child (being taught or not as a KW child, accessing the learning content at home or not) etc

Perhaps repeating a year could be an option for some children if really required yet as a PP mentioned it really isn’t within the normal tools of the English education sector and would require a lot of thinking to implement

lanthanum · 29/01/2021 16:40

I think there's been quite a divergence this year between pupils depending on home situation. Some primary kids have good internet, parents who can find the time to sit with them to watch any video input, help them understand it, encourage them with set tasks, and maybe even build on that. Others have little or no access to a computer, and parents who can't sit with them because they're working or looking after other siblings, and who might not be able to explain the work when they're stuck anyway.

There might be a lot of sense in allowing some pupils to repeat the year, but the logistics might be tricky, particularly in smaller schools. If you have 30 kids in each year, the chances that the number wanting to repeat each year matches the number from the class below who want to repeat that year are slim. Mixed-year classes might be necessary. And there would need to be some extra capacity, both in terms of staffing and classroom space.

There's also the problem of whether there's a bit of stigma attached to repeating - not only for the children ("but I want to stay with my friends"), but also for parents who may see it as labelling them as having failed with the home-schooling. I'd like to think that repeating could be considered as an option if the logistics work, but I think plenty won't want it.

Fortunately teachers are usually very good at differentiating for pupils with different starting points, and I think they will all be acutely aware that there may be rather bigger differences than usual, and also that some children may catch up quicker than others. In recent years there has been an increased emphasis on identifying children who are falling behind expectations, and putting in place intervention to help them catch up, so that's also going to be more important than ever.

Angel2702 · 29/01/2021 16:42

@LouHotel

I'm interested in whether teaching unions would consider swapping summer vacation for january lockdown. So kids stay off another 2 or 3 weeks but it gets added on for July.

Keeps everyone safe and kids dont have to try and learn from home. Surely it must have been discussed somewhere.

Who wants to give up summer holiday for time off in freezing cold weather with everything closed?
Annabell80 · 29/01/2021 16:46

I don't think it will happen despite the terrifying comment I read earlier about how it could take a year for children to catch up. (Mind you it was from Boris so probably talking crap).
I'm just not sure how it would work.

tunnocksreturns2019 · 29/01/2021 16:51

@ramblingsonthego

What happens to the students who are due to start reception this year? Are we moving to a compulsory start age of 6 from now on?

What about nurseries and childcare facilities who have already got people filling in the spaces from September for the children due to move up to school. Who loses out on this? The new children or the ones who should be leaving? Thus leaving thousands of parents struggling to get childcare for the next year.

What happens to colleges and universities? Do they just not have a student cohort in September? This will send most colleges and universities to the wall financially so even more competition for places the following year as I would estimate at least 60% would go bankrupt with no fees for a year.

The theory is nice, the practicality is just impossible.

This
redsquirrelfan · 29/01/2021 16:58

@Dinosaurcatcher

My child has gone back to repeat Y12 instead of joining Y13 (last September). She didn’t feel (and I agree) that she wouldn’t be able to have her best shot at her A levels with the amount of education she received last year.
It should definitely be a possibility for those who want to and it's reasonably possible at sixth form level as people often decide to go back and do other subjects after Y12 - eg they might have started A levels and decided a BTEC would suit them better or they choose the wrong subjects.

I said this on the other thread about repeating the year but I think the most able will be fine. Those who would struggle to keep up at the best of times should certainly have the option or there should be some sort of catch-up - however it would depend on numbers, schools are going to be able to cater for only a few going back a year.

However, my Y13 son has covered the content and definitely wants to move on this year. It's not been ideal but his sixth form college have offered decent provision and he wants to get on with his life.

Lollipop1234 · 29/01/2021 17:03

I wish this would happen, but don’t think it will.

In an ideal world for me, they would all repeat the year from September, but with all of the extra curricular stuff too.

My kids live for the sports and the school productions etc, which for them is as important as the academic stuff. It’s part of an all round education, and not all children are completely academic.

I think kids would do better starting school at 5 anyway, so perhaps they should free up more preschool places and settings for those due to start this September, and continue like this long term.

It won’t happen, but for us it would be great.

BluebellsGreenbells · 29/01/2021 17:06

My child’s learning about pirates and London Bridge so if they just cut the crap they could probably cram the basics of reading writing into two years

Do you know how they teach these days?

Pirates are great for character description for story writing, they can learn to structure sentences or write balance arguments or write letters, create posters which are all literacy based.

It’s not the knowledge of pirates the teachers are interested in, it’s can they use full stops capital letters, alliteration, paragraphs, similes which they add to their subject

BluebellsGreenbells · 29/01/2021 17:08

For those poor ‘X’ falling behind

I’m sorry but my son is dyslexic has had been behind for years and probably one of 10/12 in his year group who have this disability. Nobody gave a shit before lockdown and and now it’s fashionable to care?

Why don’t you lobby the colleges, 6th forms universities, employers, apprenticeships to actually grive people a chance instead of writing them off based on a two hour exam paper?

CarrieBlue · 29/01/2021 17:10

There aren’t enough teachers to fill all vacancies currently. Add an extra year and those shortages are even more stark.