Runners face and knees

[CarmenSanfrancisco]

I took up C25K in lockdown 1. I’m a pretty poor runner but I really enjoyed it, not a huge amount of exercise as such but it clears my head.

However, I’m also 35 and starting to age. I mentioned I was running to a (very beautiful, well maintained) acquaintance and she said she’d never run to avoid the risk of a droopy runners face. My gym instructor is also extremely anti running for the impact on knees.

I guess I just wanted to ask about other peoples experience of running. Do you regret it? On the one hand, I really enjoy it but obviously don’t want to bugger my face and knees for the future. I’m not sure if these concerns only apply to serious runners or the occasional 5k as well? I’m desk based so I really struggle to fit in enough steps in the time I have each day without a run. I’ve tried researching it but most research seems pretty inconclusive.

Maybe I am quite cynical, but maybe your gym instructor doesn't like the fact that running is totally free

Yes, I wondered this. There must be some ulterior motive, given that running is highly recommended by health professionals as per their recognised, official training.

And have you got a foam roller? No, but I'm looking on Amazon...
You can put yourself through the same agony the physiotherapist gave you, but for a fraction of the price! (I'm not on commission)

@UsedUpUsername

Runner’s Face is definitely a thing.

It’s a combination of a couple of things—obviously being outside in all weathers is one factor, not using SPF every time you are out (some people only do it on sunny days but you need to do it every damn day). Tensing your face whilst running can also cause this issue

Then, not so obvious is that the lack of facial fat will cause drooping. Fat people actually do look younger as they age, the rest of us get fillers.

I have no idea about the knees, anecdotally I do know some hard-core runners that struggle with it

Eh? "The rest of us get fillers?" Speak for yourself!

Its not just loss of facial fat that "causes drooping". Its lack of prominent cheek bones, a narrow jaw coupled with a receeding chin, poor dental health leading to bone loss and a narrow jaw where your teeth are crammed into too narrow a space, a large, convex nose, downward turned eyes, and the quality and type of your collagen.

IMHO fillers causes drooping and too much facial fat is ageing, as ageing is a lot more to do with your skin colour and quality as well as how much facial fat you have.

Its sad that so many people think like this and possibly use it as an excuse not to go outdoors and exercise, its really old fashioned thinking, like an old wives tale.

I really don't understand how anybody can say 'runner's face is definitely a thing'

How do you know whether the person would have had a droopy face regardless of whether they were a regular runner or not? Some people do and never get off their arses. Overweight people don't because fat is a filler. I'm sure we've all seen people who have lost lots of weight and look droopy in the face ('Gosh, he actually looked better with a bit of weight on him, didn't he!') but that's weight loss related, not running related.

Thank you @gannett. Keep cross posting!

[quote Malbecca]@SunshineCake is one side of the heel more worn than the other, or is it even across the shoe?

If they're worn out they do need replacing, but if they're comfortable and nothing hurts then it would probably be easiest to find out what the equivalent is of your old shoes that Asics make now.[/quote]
It is the inside. As a child I walked over on y feet but haven't noticed it on my trainers.

@likeamillpond

Can I ask seasoned runners a question? If someone is very overweight should they be taking up running, or is it best to take up low impact excercise first and once they're lighter THEN take up running, I see so many overweight runners out and about since covid and part of me thinks Good on them but then I think that must be so damaging on your joints (and boobs) because theyre not wearing sports bras.

I was overweight at 12 stone 9 when I started with couch 25k. I am getting faster speeds now and really feel the lightness of an almost two stone loss. I'd say start whenever you want.

@SunshineCake in that case you probably overpronate, rolling your foot inwards. I do the same but mine is caused by flat arches and corrected with insoles (diagnosed by a podiatrist after I stared getting knee pain).

You can get shoes specifically intended for runners who under/over-pronate but there seems to be mixed opinion on whether this is strictly necessary.

I used to be a physio assistant on an orthopaedic ward. Purely anecdotal but the knee replacements I saw were all in overweight people whilst all the physios would discuss what 10ks they’d signed up for at the weekend.

When I asked one of them about my hip and lower back pain, she very gently suggested I lose weight and try couch to 5k. She was right.

Eh? "The rest of us get fillers?" Speak for yourself!

Obvious joke is obvious 🤷‍♀️

Its not just loss of facial fat that "causes drooping". Its lack of prominent cheek bones, a narrow jaw coupled with a receeding chin, poor dental health leading to bone loss and a narrow jaw where your teeth are crammed into too narrow a space, a large, convex nose, downward turned eyes, and the quality and type of your collagen

Facial structure does help, but we all lose facial fat as we age. There’s not much we can really do about it (Beside be fat).

IMHO fillers causes drooping

Yes, overuse can do that.

Its sad that so many people think like this and possibly use it as an excuse not to go outdoors and exercise, its really old fashioned thinking, like an old wives tale

It’s fine in moderation. But there’s really something to it, sorry. But looks aren’t everything anyway, as I’m sure you’ll agree.

Friends of mine who have taken up running fairly regularly/seriously have ended up with the dreaded runners face.

I think it's a trade off for having a much fitter body though.

They say as you get older it's arse or face

I don't even think that pic of 'runner's face' looks that bad. She's just over a certain age and smiling. Pretty misogynistic, really.

Thank you @Malbecca.

Not RTFT OP but they do say you have to choose between your face and your bum as you get older. The chances are as a runner you'll have a nice bum but a less good face. If you run too much you can certainly look a bit gaunt.

I did read something a few years ago about a facialist being able to tell as soon as someone walked into the room whether they were a runner or not. I am not convinced, I know quite a few runners with fatter faces, it's the ones who run and run and run who get too thin.

As for running causing bad knees, that is a big fat myth. If you get fat, you are more likely to get bad knees, and running is a great way to lose and/or maintain weight. If you get arthritis you were going to get it anyway and there's probably someone in your family with it (DH has a bad knee and his dad had two sets of knee replacements).

@annevonkleve

As for running causing bad knees, that is a big fat myth

Why do people persist with this? Apart from the fact that even running with good form can cause damage from over use, do you really think that people who are setting out running as novices always have perfect form and perfect shoes and do perfect warm ups and perfect stretches and a perfect schedule with perfect rest periods?

And do you genuinely not believe that omissions in any of the above cannot cause knee problems?

This is the first I've heard of runners face and ice been running for 10+ years . Basically it seems like you just need to use sunscreen and not run so much you lose too much weight and look gaunt. That's not going to happen doing a couch to 5k OP! Like a lot of things it's a matter of getting the balance right. And there's nothing wrong with looking a bit weather beaten. I had a knee injury once years ago but nothing since. As long as you build up mileage and frequency of runs gradually you shouldn't injure yourself, i.e. don't suddenly try and run twice as far as you would normally. There a lot of running plans online if you want to run more often or further and they can help you plan your runs to gradually increase mileage safely.
I can't believe someone wouldn't run because of runners face! My skin is literally glowing after a run, I look better. Sounds like an excuse to me , and quite shallow . Running is brilliant for physical and mental health.

Not read the whole thread but I'm assuming only women get runners face?

UsedUpUsername It’s fine in moderation. But there’s really something to it, sorry. But looks aren’t everything anyway, as I’m sure you’ll agree.

I'm unsure whether by "moderation" you mean the difference between sprint, middle distance or long distance training, because obviously there is a huge difference in mileage and body type, but I don't agree actually.

If you have Chinese/North Asian ancestry or Ehlers-Danloss Syndrome which affects your collagen, or just very good bone structure and good genes, your experience will be quite different. Not everyone has the typical English face, which is usually quite narrow with low cheekbones, a pointy nose and pointy jaw.

Since I've kept my looks, I do think they are very important. I know I look younger if I stay slim than if I put on weight, due to a naturally fat-generous face, and I've looked better as I've aged as a result. Its quite ridiculous at times and I'm not sure you would necessarily know who has aged well or not, because the reaction can be so embarrassing, some people might lie about their age to avoid the fuss.

But I'm still far more interested in enjoying my running than appealing to random men, as one poster up thread also pointed out.

Runner's face upthread photo is not what I'd imagined, I'd thought sagging meant jowls and nose to mouth lines, not forehead and eye lines which are just thin skin and poor sun protection over the years. This type of double chin I think its very ageing and I can tell by the poor skin quality that this person has relatively poor circulation and does little exercise.

[quote Eckhart]@annevonkleve

As for running causing bad knees, that is a big fat myth

Why do people persist with this? Apart from the fact that even running with good form can cause damage from over use, do you really think that people who are setting out running as novices always have perfect form and perfect shoes and do perfect warm ups and perfect stretches and a perfect schedule with perfect rest periods?

And do you genuinely not believe that omissions in any of the above cannot cause knee problems?[/quote]
I think because when you investigate the cause of knee problems, you usually find an anatomical cause at the root of it. A shallow trochlear groove is certainly quite common in women, due to their wider pelvis.

Its also more likely that people who exercise are more likely to seek orthopeadic help, rather than be fobbed off by GPs refusing to refer them, or just giving up moving and sitting in a chair.

I think because when you investigate the cause of knee problems, you usually find an anatomical cause at the root of it. A shallow trochlear groove is certainly quite common in women, due to their wider pelvis

Yes, which means that, for them, running causes knee problems. Knowing the cause of something doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Yes, which means that, for them, running causes knee problems. Knowing the cause of something doesn't mean it's not a problem.

But then men predispose to osteoarthritis for other reasons, and thats not helped because overall they are heavier.

You can't just write off all women who wish to run, that depends very much on when it causes osteoarthritis, doens't it? And that depends on how serious it is, because many, many people have osteoarthritis and are a-symptomatic, including runners. Many people, many of whom are men, develop osteoarthritis for multiple causes at some stage in their lives.

I do not see this as a problem unless its a great issue in 20 - 25 year olds. In people in their late forties plus, its kind of to be expected whether you're a runner or not to some degree.

I think this fiction amongst some that osteoarthritis can be avoided by avoiding lack of wear and tear is so unrealistic that it requires further exploration. Is it some kind of phobia?

@LimitIsUp I have identical issues - tight hamstrings and Achilles. How have you managed this? I seem to be in an endless cycle of getting to 3 x 10km a week (building up slowly, making sure I stretch before and after etc.) and then getting injured. It's driving me crazy.

Do men get accused of having ‘runners’ face’ or is it yet another stick to beat women with?

In my experience, my runner’s face is characterised by it having a great big smile slapped across it because I can run a good 7k for the first time in my life at the age of 46 and you could bounce a 50 pence piece off my arse

Sadly RedPandaFluff I haven't managed this. I have given up running (due to the plantar fasciitis) and plan to purchase Peleton for spinning

Reporting in. Ran 10km this morning for first time in ages. Found trainers I love. £80. Not good at spending money on myself. Still deciding.