What about nurseries?

[NeverEnoughTea]

So all primary schools are now closing in London. What about nurseries? We are getting at least one case per fortnight in my child’s class, sometimes more.

I'm more worried preschool will close for my DS than primary for my DD

Nurseries can remain open, I go back Monday as planned.

Closing private nurseries is a much bigger ask to be fair - parents obviously won’t pay the fees, the rent and bills still needs to be paid, the staff all have to get furloughed - but the current furlough costs the business a lot more than in the first lockdown - we have to top up the wages by 20% as government are on paying 60% now and businesses have to pay the national insurance and pensions (didn’t have to do that before)

Opening for just key workers children last time we ran at a loss as the fees being paid were so low (6children) had to have 3 staff in and pay cleaners etc

Can’t do it again unless the government are willing to bail us out / give grants or whatever!

My DS's nursery has moved entirely outside. Very few toys, meals outside, all activities outside.

They have had one case since the children went back in June (one bubble shut for 2 weeks).

If nurseries have to close, it should be on a case-by- case basis. Some have done an absolutely fantastic job of reducing the risk of transmission.

They are closed in Scotland unless key workers I'm lucky my LA accepts 1 key worker so my son has a place.

But its going to be a massive challenge for a lot of parents and so far in Scotland there have been few cases in nurseries due to the outdoor time, bubbles and extra procedures in place. Set up us also different from school in that children don't spend the day next to each other at desks or sat at carpets they have much more space. Compared to cases in secondary or work places its much much lower.

Several friends are having to take unpaid leave as employer won't furlough and they have zero childcare options of family about.

It puts people in a very difficult position and it's very difficult to wfh with a toddler who won't even sit and watch a Disney film for more than 15 minutes!

Yes exactly the government won't give money to Early Years. In other countries there is so much more respect for this sector.

@MessAllOver

My DS's nursery has moved entirely outside. Very few toys, meals outside, all activities outside.

They have had one case since the children went back in June (one bubble shut for 2 weeks).

If nurseries have to close, it should be on a case-by- case basis. Some have done an absolutely fantastic job of reducing the risk of transmission.

Same here

Plus temp check, small bubbles and PPE

If they are forced to close a very good business with loyal and valued staff probably wouldn’t survive

@Heyahun Thanks, you make some good points.

Looking at the other comments, I don’t think DC’s nursery is doing enough to prevent infection. Some days they have no outdoor time at all, even though it isn’t raining...Not sure about them being outside ALL day though. I’m sure it’s well managed but my DC is there for ten hours and that seems a lot to ask, especially in January.

Guidance from DfE is that you should be outside as often as possible. I have followed this so my mindees are out for at least 5 hours of a 10 hour day. Wrapped up warm puddle suits etc. It's good for healthy children to be outside. I personally have had far fewer children off this year with common viruses or colds. Behaviour better too. Outside is the way forward! No vomming bugs. Silver linings

@NeverEnoughTea. They have a teepee with a (supervised) patio heater in case the children get cold. They also have books in there, which I guess is a transmission risk. Though the staff are very good at enforcing hand washing/ hand gel at frequent intervals. They rig up tarpaulins over the activities when it's raining.

You do have to send the children with thermals/multiple layers/good quality waterproofs. And at least 2 changes. I get a bag of muddy clothes back every evening. And a DS absolutely caked from head to toe in mud and dirt. So it's not for all parents/ kids.

We take lots of hot water bottles out with us too

As a parent I have really invested this winter in decent warm clothing for my preschool DS for this reason!

As far as we know there haven't been any cases at nursery. LO is 10 months old. They have strict systems in place so no parents inside, proof of negative tests required, outside time every day, small bubbles, no verbal handover (use the app or phone) etc I'm fully expecting them to shut at some point but so far they've been brilliant.

I work at a preschool. We haven’t had any cases, however I am worried now about this new strain. I would hope that we would close if primary schools in our area do....tier 4 but up north so we don’t count 🙄

@Heyahun

I manage a private nursery - we are not closing! We’ve been told by the learning trust to open on Monday as planned

We only had one case since reopening in the summer - we have a large outdoor area and will be outside as much as possible - we have a cleaner in to work for the full shift every day! Children in smaller age group bubbles !
I really don’t think we are closing tbh

Have all my staff in tomorrow for briefing in new guidelines

How many hours outside? It's freezing at the moment

My DS is outside from 9am until 4pm/dusk.

@MessAllOver

My DS is outside from 9am until 4pm/dusk.

Wouldn’t make sense not to allow nurseries but then support private childcare done by the grandparents.

[quote NeverEnoughTea]@Heyahun Thanks, you make some good points.

Looking at the other comments, I don’t think DC’s nursery is doing enough to prevent infection. Some days they have no outdoor time at all, even though it isn’t raining...Not sure about them being outside ALL day though. I’m sure it’s well managed but my DC is there for ten hours and that seems a lot to ask, especially in January.[/quote]
My sons nursery day is now minimum 75% outside its usually more 90% and we are in the North of Scotland where its not been above 4 degrees since mid November.

The Nursery is very well adapted we send lots of layers and waterproofs in, the babies nap in specialist buggies with Scandinavian cacoons. They have covered sections, patio heaters for meal times and outdoor craft times and have an extending sail for if its chucking it.
My son loves it and rarely gets cold as the staff change wet things quickly and keep an eye on hands and feet.
You will be surprised at how hardy they are I think the staff feel the cold more!

I'm lucky in that I'm on maternity leave until February. I'm not sending my kids into nursery next week. They have been brilliant so far and no cases but I'm in a badly hit area of North East London and I'm not willing to experiment with this new strain and my family's health. I've agonised over this but want to see how things develop in the next few weeks.

@peppapigyoghurt outside for most of the day - maybe 8 hours? It’s mostly sheltered so can even be out in rain! We have some heaters out there - the parents are aware we are outside mostly now - they ensure to send the children in warm clothes all layered up! It’s fine for them to be out all day tbh once they are dressed appropriately! They are having a blast, we have rain suits for each child and they can play in puddles and stuff after it’s been raining - we have a big garden and a green house and they get to do lots of planting/gardening! We alternate one bubble at a time being inside - then do a big clean / disinfect everything and can then take another bubble in!

Tbh we always spent a heap of time outside even before Covid ! The owner is from Norway and they have a saying that there’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes!!

@EasterIssland

Wouldn’t make sense not to allow nurseries but then support private childcare done by the grandparents.

Could you please tell Nicola Sturgeon that!

Nurseries, even private ones are closed until “at least” 18th January.

We did have to spend a bit on outdoor clothes...full thermal underwear and base layers, thick lined waterproofs, woolly jumpers and fleecy layers, multiple pairs of gloves and thermal socks. DS (who is on the skinny side) looks like the Michelin man when I send him off in the morning.

Some children feel the cold more than others and the staff are always checking hands and feet. DS "runs hot", according to the nursery staff .

My DD's nursery has not had any cases (touch highly sanitised wood)

They are very scrict. Masks on pick up and drop off, temp checks for all kids, handwashing stations before going in and needing evidence if negative tests.

They also have excellent outdoor facilities. She does full day of forest school each week and they cook outside. Outdoors for a large chuck of time the other days.

She's been home with us for a week and has her first proper cold of the season.

I definitely think the focus on outdoor play is a good thing. Works for the Scandinavians! As the phrase goes, there's no such thing as bad weather... Just bad clothes.

Our private nursery has had zero cases since March despite being in a high risk area. Compared to schools the number of children there is very small and bubbles even smaller. They spend lots of time outside and they have employed an extra cleaner.

Cases in age 0-4 were still way below any other age group when I checked recently. I know they also really struggled financially with the last lockdown.

I'm going to be sending DC in for now.