To think people in mental health units

Stompythedinosaur · 31/12/2020 21:13

The situation is awful for people who are prevented from leaving MH hospitals, but I don't see what the alternative is. Covid would go round a ward like wildfire. Staff are trying to balance the risk to patients of being infected versus the risk of loneliness and isolation.

Original poster

Tellmelies65 · 31/12/2020 21:14

Yes I fully understand that but the staff are still seeing their family. Surely walk with me or her son wouldn’t outside wouldn’t do any harm.

OP posts:

nanny2012nanny · 31/12/2020 21:22

Completely agree my step bro has been in since the beginning of the month.
After a month’s stay on a hospital ward.
So two months of no visitors.
I tell him every day on the phone that he is safe, warm, has 3 meals a day and can go to the gym there (It’s closed where he lives Tier 4 )
I’ve dropped him off some wire less earphones and a battery charger that attaches to his phone as he isn’t allowed phone chargers / leads in his bedroom, he’s then able to listen to radio / podcasts to drown out the noise at night he said that helps.

Original poster

Tellmelies65 · 31/12/2020 22:34

Sorry to hear about your step brother hopefully he’s able to be discharged soon.

OP posts:

ArrowsOfMistletoe · 31/12/2020 22:46

It's very, very hard. My foster son's mum has had 3 admissions this year during COVID and wasn't allowed visitors. A good friend of mine is currently detained on a section 2 - he can't have visitors either (his family are twats and don't give a shit about him but I'd visit if I could).

But the COVID threat is real. I'm an NHS worker, I see the briefings every day that I'm not on leave and it is really is as bad as that. No empty wards, the NHS isn't coasting - it's crashing and burning under the weight of demand.

Original poster

Tellmelies65 · 01/01/2021 00:37

Yes it’s such a shame they aren’t even letting people have visits even distanced.

OP posts:

Myothercarisalsoshit · 01/01/2021 00:42

My son was sectioned the weekend before Christmas. We were allowed to see him very briefly on Christmas Day but no other visits are allowed. It's awful. People with MH struggles need to see others. Having said that he went back to the ward when we tried to explain that we couldn't bring him home. Hey ho.

WitchesGlove · 01/01/2021 00:49

@nanny2012nanny

Completely agree my step bro has been in since the beginning of the month. After a month’s stay on a hospital ward. So two months of no visitors. I tell him every day on the phone that he is safe, warm, has 3 meals a day and can go to the gym there (It’s closed where he lives Tier 4 ) I’ve dropped him off some wire less earphones and a battery charger that attaches to his phone as he isn’t allowed phone chargers / leads in his bedroom, he’s then able to listen to radio / podcasts to drown out the noise at night he said that helps.

What is the noise from?

Do you not get your own small room on mental health wards?

WitchesGlove · 01/01/2021 00:50

@Stompythedinosaur

The situation is awful for people who are prevented from leaving MH hospitals, but I don't see what the alternative is. Covid would go round a ward like wildfire. Staff are trying to balance the risk to patients of being infected versus the risk of loneliness and isolation.

Don’t you have to be incredibly ill to get sectioned? Due to shortages of beds?

nanny2012nanny · 01/01/2021 01:28

@WitchesGlove if only it was as you think.
The noise is from the other patients at night.
Yes they have their own room. But you can still hear what’s going on.
I think you need to read up on mental health.

jgjgjgjgjg · 01/01/2021 01:30

Only people with quite severe mental health problems are sectioned and therefore cannot leave. If your District has not been sectioned she can leave at any point.

Lightsontbut · 01/01/2021 01:30

You do have to be incredibly ill to go into MH hospital. You also do have your own room but they are not sound proofed so you can hear others if they're not quiet and as they are really ill, sometimes they are not. I wonder if there is a reason related to your sister's illness which means that a walk is not possible OP? some hospitals are allowing that but sometimes that's not safe.

jgjgjgjgjg · 01/01/2021 01:30

Dsis not District.

Lightsontbut · 01/01/2021 01:33

People who are sectioned can leave if they have section 17 leave authorised. That is an individualised decision.

Star81 · 01/01/2021 01:36

My heart goes out to your family but sadly it’s all about limiting risk. Hopefully vaccine here means you will be able to visit him soon x

Sugarplumfairy65 · 01/01/2021 01:46

I also feel for the staff who work in them. My sister is a nurse and had her nose broken by a patient on Christmas eve because she wouldn't go to the shop and buy him some alcohol. He insisted it was his human right. Not enough staff to restrain him so he just carried on hitting her despite the alarm sounding. It's a daily occurrence on her ward now and is severely affecting the staffs mental health.

Raccooons · 01/01/2021 01:48

@Tellmelies65

Aren’t being thought about. My dsis is currently in one after being moved there from a medical ward. She’s allowed no leave from the hospital and no Visits. She struggles in there a lot with the noise and can’t get any rest bite from it.

I'm sorry to hear about your dsis.

I am a mental health worker on an inpatient MH ward for over 65's. Honestly? It's a very tough balance.

If we lock the ward down and don't allow visitors (which happens when we are in Tier 4, and happened in the November and spring national lockdowns) our patients are understandably distressed that they can't see their families. BUT on the other hand, when we have the doors open to visitors we notice a sharp rise in covid cases on the ward every time. Patients can be infectious before symptoms appear, so it spreads around the ward like wildfire before we have any idea. And making someone who is severely mentally ill (and often elderly w/dementia) stay in their bedroom and isolate to keep other patients safe is very, very difficult to do (we try our best but we can't be with people on a 1:1 at all times so sometimes they wander out of their rooms) .

This year, we have had to send a lot of patients to A&E with suspected covid or confirmed covid, because we can't give people oxygen etc on the ward, it's not our expertise. It's quite unusual for us to need to send a patient to the general hospital, but this year it seems to be happening a lot and usually - particularly when visitors are allowed - it's because they have caught covid and have become hypoxic or otherwise unwell.

So I do understand the stress and frustration, and it is really hard for patients and sometimes even more so their families (because they don't know the staff / don't know how we're looking after their loved one). But, we're doing our best to keep our patients happy and healthy and sometimes not allowing visitors is what we have to do, sadly.

Raccooons · 01/01/2021 01:51

And the above still happens even when we don't allow visitors into the ward but instead let them go on walks with patients or sit in the ward garden. It's very infectious unfortunately. We are allowed to check the temperature of a visitor, but for all we know they could have a cough that we don't know about and they could be controlling the temperature with paracetamol.

Visitors arrive and cough at us and say "Its not covid". We ask if they've been tested and they say no, but that they "know its not covid". Or they say they've had a negative test result (but we can't exactly check can we)

Raccooons · 01/01/2021 01:57

OP, your dsis should be able to ask for a staff member to escort her on a walk. Even under section, a patient has the right to ask and depending on their risk level we often let them go.

If staff are too busy they will say no, but she could always ask again later.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 01/01/2021 01:59

I agree with @Raccooons (ex MH support worker). My friends who are still working on the wards have said similar.

Its hard for them and you I know, but staff are doing what they can to keep everyone safe.

Slightlyunhinged · 01/01/2021 02:00

It depends how you define incredibly ill @witchesglove . You can be sectioned if you are considered a danger to yourself, but that doesn't necessarily stop you needing, or wanting, to see loved ones. The units can be noisy because people are there for all sorts of reasons, so you might have some one having a melt down in the corridor, or some one else unable to sleep and walking around talking loudly. There are staff moving around and patients are checked on regularly throughout the night, which can disturb you if you are a light sleeper. MH units are very much needed but they are not peaceful places!

@nanny2012nanny when I was in a M H unit, we could bring in chargers for things and they were locked away in a cupboard. Then when we wanted something charged we could give it to a member of staff and they would charge it for us.

TheNanny23 · 01/01/2021 02:10

Lots of patients on local unit are in forms of four people...

If they are sectioned then quite rightly can’t access leave until this has been risk assessed.

From personal experience leave to see family members can be difficult... what do you do if they breach the rules and hug?

Xmassprout · 01/01/2021 02:23

I'm sorry, it must be such a difficult situation to be in. Its hard enough having a family member in there in normal times, never mind at the moment.

My teenage sister is a frequent inpatient, although we've managed to keep her at home by the skin of our teeth. Because she's a teen she normally goes to the children ward, and when admitted normally goes straight to a critical care ward. The noise is truly heartbreaking, it is haunting and hurts my heart just thinking about it. Would ear defenders help? Would she be allowed them?

Becles · 01/01/2021 02:26

If patients go on leave, should they be allowed back on a ward before a negative covid test?

If a patient comes back without a negative test who is responsible for any infection/death of other patients and staff?

If they're not permitted to return to the ward without a negative test, where do they go while waiting or if they become unwell?

My friend works for a mental health hospital and about 2/9 wards closed to new admissions because of patient covid happened because an emergency admission or a patient transferred between wards brought it. God knows how many staff off or with long covid after catching it from patients.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/01/2021 03:07

We've had 2 outbreaks on our mental health wards and another is starting now on the elderly ward. It is not an exaggeration to say that it's likely some of those elderly patients will die. Statistically we will have 2-3 deaths if all those patients are infected. Imagine if that is your parent or grandparent.

If COVID gets into a locked mental health ward it is a disaster. In one of our outbreaks 100% of staff and patients were infected and a quarter of them required transfer to the acute hospital. People with serious mental illness are at much higher risk of dying from Covid than the general population and are classed as vulnerable. Fortunately no patient deaths so far in our Trust although shockingly we have had a staff member die and another in ITU.

Those wards which had outbreaks obviously had to be closed to admissions for many weeks and that resulted in people who needed admission being turned away or sent out of area.

We are in a tier 4 area and cases are doubling every week.

Obviously staff have to come into the ward to work and look after the patients but visitors are an extra risk that we just can't afford right now. Even a socially distant visit is not zero risk. In Tier 4 you'd only be allowed to see 1 person outside in any case whether you were in hospital or not.

Obviously it's shit that we can't allow visitors. No-one wants it to be this way but with rates like they are there is a genuine risk of people dying if COVID gets in and when you weigh that up you surely can see why we can't allow visits.

In the summer when rates were lower we were allowing visitors and leave off the ward but as things are now we can't take the risk.

There has to be one policy for everyone because even if you and your family member are happy to take a risk/ feel you are low risk the other patients may very well not be and your visit would be putting them at risk too with no benefit for them and a risk they did not consent to.

I do agree there should be no visitors as things stand whilst we are in Tier 4. We have always said it will be reviewed if and when rates come down.

I have had COVID already myself (caught at work) and tbh I am bloody relieved because the stress of worrying that I could be the cause of an outbreak and of people's deaths was far greater than any worry I had for myself or my own family. If you visited, later found out you had asymptomatic Covid and had infected your relative and gone on to cause an outbreak in which people died could you honestly live with yourself because I know I couldn't?