Would you pay an additional tax for the NHS?

[Whatisthis543]

I’m torn on this one, surely our taxes should cover a well funded NHS but it seems that they don’t...

Is that systematic I.e too much bureaucracy and poor allocation of resources (within the trusts and elsewhere) or is there genuinely not enough money with an ageing population and rapid growth?

No, I think they have to do a massive overhaul first and remove a lot of the waste that exists. I know this will be unpopular but I also believe they have to stop many of the procedures which I would describe as discretionary. I know there is a lot of subjectivity re this but I know what I would stop straight away.

No, because no amount of tax would ever be enough for an inefficient system. If NHS was run like a private organization, some of the waste and inefficiency would never be tolerated.

Same as most people posting on here , only if the money went to front line workers ie nurses doctors hca’s

But not as it is run at present , there’s and old saying which runs throughout the NHS “too many chiefs and not enough Indians”

What about a vote to review the NHS rather like Brexit. Leave as is or present a new option. See what the citizens of the UK think. Looking at this thread I think we would find that very many people think it cannot continue as is.

No, not in its current state. And @MaskingForIt hits the nail on the head.

Yes, I’d be more than happy to pay higher taxes and receive higher quality public services, free prescriptions, better access to dental services, a properly funded education system etc

If everyone paid even just 1£ more tax a month imagine how much money it would be

A lot of the problems in the NHS come down to how long recruitment takes.
In my department they don’t advertise posts until after the person leaving has left. Some people have 3 months notice so why the fuck can’t they advertise in advance so they have someone ready to start as soon as they leave. Nope. They then have to go through the whole interview, reference, notice period nonsense.
Or have locum staff who don’t know the department very well so they make mistakes.

We currently have 6 vacancies in our department which are taking months to fill.

I would if I could be sure it would go to the NHS. The government has lots of money gleaned from taxes which they are saving, I don't trust them.

@oldperson1
old saying which runs throughout the NHS “too many chiefs and not enough Indians”

And that saying is still racist and colonialist and should be sent back to the past where it belongs. Update your idioms.

@Heyahun

If everyone paid even just 1£ more tax a month imagine how much money it would be

Probably not that much. Most people are children, retired, unemployed or on long term benefits. The number of people actually in employment is quite small.

Dear OP: no frekking way. I already pay a lot. It's called National Insurance.
If govs (not just this, but this one particularly) would not spend our tax money on lining the pocket of their friends we'd be in a much better position.
I do not want to pay more so that friends and family have more.

Number of employed 2020 start: 39 million
On furlough in Dec 2020: 10m

Would love to pay tax but am now unemployed. Can't see that I will be paying tax anytime soon!

National insurance pays for the NHS as a separate tax already
I'd like to see how much the UK treasury get I and how much goes out per head. There are efficiencies tlmade but not because Bojo and his friends are systematically stripping the service. That also needs to stop.

Virgin et Al have no place in the NHS

We are the 35th best healthcare system in the world in the last study. We pay he least owe oweson in the west and we have the least hospital beds per person, the highest number of people per doctor etc. There is a massive deficit forecast when you look at numbers retiring vs numbers coming through. I'd love to pay more tax and not have to worry about my parents waiting months and months after a cancer diagnosis or being in pain for a few years needlessly because there is a few year waiting list for a hip replacement because walking is 'not essential'. I was off work 6 months last year due to an acute issue. My referral came though in Autumn the following year. How is this cost effective? To have old people stationary for a few years because the test for joint replacement is being in so much pain they cant sleep? But not being able to walk for 18 months is ok

*per person

There are too many managers, not enough on the ground staff. I wound be happy to if we could restructure everything and employ more nurses, midwives and other staff on the ground.

However atm it'd just go into the pocket of band 7,8 and 8a's. Not money well spent imo.

Happy New Year to you too MaskingForIt 🙄

@nyenc

There are too many managers, not enough on the ground staff. I wound be happy to if we could restructure everything and employ more nurses, midwives and other staff on the ground.

However atm it'd just go into the pocket of band 7,8 and 8a's. Not money well spent imo.

What is the proportion of managers to ground staff and what proportion should the service aim for? What are the proportions in comparable health services around the world?

The NHS is the worlds 5th largest employer and manages enormous budgets so they are going to need a large teams with specific expertise to manage Human Resources, finance, project management etc.

It would be better for all tax loopholes to be stopped & all the companies that are traced back to abroad so they don't have to pay as much corporation tax. The Civil service estates finances also could probably do with close inspection, you would be surprised how many buildings that are classed as owned by the Civil Service are actually traced back to the Cayman Islands. If more loopholes were closed, there would be more money in the pot. Hospitals could be made more efficient if they were run along the lines of private ones, I've been in several times to my local one & while there didn't seem to be as many nursing staff as in an NHS hospital ward, staff were always available if you needed anything, drugs were given on time, the wards were immaculately clean but there were no staff continually sat around the nurses station gossiping, they were attending to patients. Everything happened like clockwork, when I hadn't been called down to theatre bang on time the nurse on the ward came & told me how long I would be & within 5 minutes I was on my way down. The hospital was everything a hospital should be, caring, compassionate & respectful towards patients, nothing too much trouble.

@nyenc

There are too many managers, not enough on the ground staff. I wound be happy to if we could restructure everything and employ more nurses, midwives and other staff on the ground.

However atm it'd just go into the pocket of band 7,8 and 8a's. Not money well spent imo.

I think the idea that the NHS has too much managers and too much bureaucracy fails to acknowledge that any very large system of anything generates bureaucracy and requires management. The necessary bureaucracy required for making sure that frontline medics can treat patients (all the people who keep patient records, schedule appointments, follow up results of those appointments, work the logistics of which surgeon and equipment is available and when, oversee supplies and procurement of necessary equipment) goes on to generate further bureaucracy: the latter alone requires a system for ensuring that the best supplies are procured and procurement is effective, which in turn requires people who oversee strategic functions and continuously monitor whether they remain the best way of doing things. If want a healthcare system which has targets for service delivery (and most of us do), there have to be people who monitor those targets, which in turn requires people to analyse the data which explains whether the targets have been met or not, then people to develop and deliver a strategy for improving how things are done so targets can be met, people who devise and deliver training so that the doctors and nurses who provide the care are deployed to do so in an optimal way so that the targets are met and therefore the best service is delivered to the patient and so on and so forth. Very quickly we have thousands upon thousands of staff often decried as “pen pushers”, without whom the entire system would be unworkable and unviable. You can’t just do away with them and say we need to focus on letting medical staff get on with treating patients.

Only if that would cover GPs too. And they were made to speak to people nicely too, including receptionist.
I would consider to pay more tax, but they also need to review how they are spending. And must be free for all.

Comtessed you must be a manager.

There are far too many managers in the NHS ask any member of clinical staff (you know the ones who actually do the work) and they will tell you that (I'm not talking about clinical managers, who still see pts) btw

Many managers have handled the Covid disease very badly. They've been like the rabbits in the headlights and I hope there is some serious investigations into many of the failings over the last 10 months. But managers always scapegoat their clinical staff.

Also worth googling what chief executives in NHS get paid.

Op I'd be happy to have see an increase in national insurance providing the money actually went into clinical areas of the NHS

Yes & no.
Yes because I believe in the idea & it obviously needs more funding.
No because i doubt when I'm 70 (35 yrs from now) it will be free for me.