Who do you consider as front line worker

[BrightonForWine]

I work on a ward with covid negative, mainly fit and well patients for elective surgery.

We consider 'frontline workers' as those who work directly with covid positive patients.

But I've seen some people who consider anyone working with patients (whatever their covid status) as frontline workers.

And now I've seen that some people consider those who work with the public or childcare (so those who work in Tesco or schools) as frontline workers.

I googled it and it was as clear as mud and seemed to banned together 'key workers' as 'frontline workers' which surprised me.

I wondered, purely out of interest what others considers as 'frontline' workers? And do you consider 'frontline and key workers' as a different name for the same thing?

[title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[quote SkinnyMinnieee]I'm not sure about who's most at risk though - what sources of evidence do you have saying that teachers are the most at risk?

Top three most dangerous are all teaching jobs, and nurses only just creep into the top ten at number nine.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/50-most-dangerous-jobs-contracting-221156019.html[/quote]

Sorry, but this illustrates a lot of problems.

You've misinterpreted data (thinking no. 50 is most severe, whereas no. 1 is in this chart)

You've quoted an American data source. They've handled things very differently from us.

It really goes to show that you can't trust what people say online, they've often got the wrong end of the stick.

Don’t get me started
I learnt today of a very holier than thou family who claimed this . I was really angry actually

Key workers are the ones that are keeping things moving

Every other family need to suck it up
And keeping the business world
Moving doesn’t count

I would say A&E and ICU, traditionally. People literally at the front door of the hospital. These days, I’d probably include those working on covid wards.

I work in a hospital, and provide opinions on a lot of ICU patients - I’m up there every week. But I do a lot of other stuff too, and wouldn’t say I was front line as such.

Practice nurses, care assistants, bin men, food production workers, HMRC? Nope. Very important, and need to be supported to stay in work, given appropriate PPE etc, but not “front line”.

riddles26All patient facing roles won’t have been in contact with Covid. 3 members of my family have been patients during Covid. I wasn’t allowed in my local ENT until I had a neg Covid test. My husband wasn’t allowed his op until he had a negative Covid test and when my ds was admitted to the Paed ward he was kept in a separate ward until his Covid neg test came back. Other jobs with face to face roles have no idea if who they are dealing with has Covid. Many nhs staff are a world away riskwise from those treating Covid patients.

Front line worker is to me people who have to make a living by being exposed to the public who may have covid.
Including of course nurses, doctors, a and a, midwives, but also bus drivers, school staff who are with pupils, (not hidden away slt), shop workers esp cashiers...

No idea TBH.

It amazes me that so many people so massively underestimate the roles/ numbers to keep us ticking over at a basic level. EG I've not heard people who work in sewage treatment plants or power stations mentioned ever. Pretty vital I would think.

Anyway.

My DH works for an organisation which is/ was hard hit. He knows 4 people who have died who he worked with. I don't know anyone. I don't think most people would see his org as frontline though.

I really dislike this disecting and judging that covid brings.

A woman with health conditions working in a supermarket because she needs the money is at risk. For example.

@Haenow

Prior to Covid, we used the term ‘frontline’ to refer to any social care or health professional who was client/patient facing as opposed to a worker who is management or in a strategic role. A petty gripe might be; ”Oh what does Bob know about X, he’s been a manager for 10 years and was only on the frontline for 2 years before he went desk based..”

This is where the confusion is coming from. Frontline in the covid pandemic means something quite different. I'm not sure why people are so adamant that social workers should be considered 'frontline' in the covid context, it makes no sense to me

@Changechangychange

I would say A&E and ICU, traditionally. People literally at the front door of the hospital. These days, I’d probably include those working on covid wards.

I work in a hospital, and provide opinions on a lot of ICU patients - I’m up there every week. But I do a lot of other stuff too, and wouldn’t say I was front line as such.

Practice nurses, care assistants, bin men, food production workers, HMRC? Nope. Very important, and need to be supported to stay in work, given appropriate PPE etc, but not “front line”.

Nurses couldn’t manage without HCA. It’s then who have more contact with the patient on a busy shift.

I'm a social worker with adults.

Keyworker yes but not hospital based so I would not say frontline per se.

We mostly deal with placing or finding care for patients as they come out of hospital

We do go into peoples' homes, colleagues have caught Covid off service users who turned out later to be positive and I've had to isolate twice and be negative from home visits.

So it's risky but I'd say retail etc might be riskier.

Health care assistant are front line workers undoubtedly.

@poshnodosh your frontline I would say most definitely. Your in the community that is your base in and out of people’s homes at a time like this. People who have possibly been in contact with positive cases and exposed in the hospital...

Teachers
Supermarket workers
Delivery drivers
Post people
Doctors and nurses
Food factory workers

@1c1cl35 they will have made everyone test before coming in for an elective procedure as it by nature is planned so of course they will avoid covid being introduced in the setting... but what about the emergencies the same professionals treat? The ones admitted via A&E?

You are showing spectacular ignorance if you think the majority of patient facing professionals haven't encountered a covid patient. They will have avoided it wherever possible but no doubt the majority will have encountered some sort of contact, hopefully it was later when the ppe shortage was resolved

I'm classed as a key worker and have a letter confirming this, though our office is trying to get more and more people WFH there are certain tasks which have to be done at the office (work in sharedealing settlements)

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Whete do people rank hospital cleaners. Personally i would say Frontline.

If you're cleaning Covid ward, you're frontline.

hobbyiscodefordogging With dentists the most risky. Yes it's American, but it does mirror concerns here. Jobs which involve aerosols are risky. Basically spray from the patient. Why CPAP for example is cited as risky.

Those in direct contact with known COVID positive patients.

Others are key workers and that encompasses a very wide range of jobs.

Nurses couldn’t manage without HCAs. It’s then who have more contact with the patient on a busy shift.

I didn’t say otherwise? I was including anybody, at any level, who works in A&E/ICU as they are literally admitting the patients, and excluding anybody, including me as a doctor, who works elsewhere in the hospital, because we are a bit more sheltered. Still in contact with Covid +ve patients daily, but there is a layer of people between me and the front door of the hospital which allows me to manage my workload a bit more. Whereas A&E (and to a lesser extent ICU) have to cope with whatever turns up.

You don’t need to agree with where I personally draw the line, but I wasn’t excluding HCAs, receptionists, radiographers, physios, cleaners or anyone else.

Oh I’ve just realised why you thought I meant that - when I said “care assistants” I meant community personal care providers, not hospital HCAs - apologies, I didn’t phrase that very well (HCAs are called clinical support workers, CSWs, in our trust, so I didn’t make the connection).

People who regularly coming into contact with covid positive members of the public as part of their duties - paramedics, public facing police, public facing nhs, prison officers (the prisons are riddled with covid), care home staff/carers, fire brigade, classroom teachers/teaching assistants. Not nhs HR who are entitled to vaccinations whilst emergency services are not. It’s beggars belief.

I think the reason non-patient facing NHS admin staff are getting vaccinated is because if they are not working, things like appointments are not rescheduled - we have major problems at the minute with sickness absences in our department and it is having a real impact on services.

In the first wave, I, as a consultant, was spending my downtime on HDU resident nightshifts printing out letters to patients telling them their appointments had been cancelled. That was really not a good use of consultant time at 4am, when a band 2 administrator could have done it instead, during normal hours. But we didn’t have any, they were all off sick or redeployed.

I do agree that police, teachers etc should be vaccinated as well. Just explaining why the non-patient facing staff are getting it.

I would class them the as the same. Keyworkers / frontline workers. Those who need to continue to work.
Teachers, bin men, emergency services, nhs, supermarkets, delivery drivers etc

@Changechangychange

I think the reason non-patient facing NHS admin staff are getting vaccinated is because if they are not working, things like appointments are not rescheduled - we have major problems at the minute with sickness absences in our department and it is having a real impact on services.

In the first wave, I, as a consultant, was spending my downtime on HDU resident nightshifts printing out letters to patients telling them their appointments had been cancelled. That was really not a good use of consultant time at 4am, when a band 2 administrator could have done it instead, during normal hours. But we didn’t have any, they were all off sick or redeployed.

This