Driving to a&e is quicker than an ambulance

[Pinkerbells]

I had to call 999 for my DP yesterday. (For context, it was for a reoccurring condition, and last time he had the same symptoms, he was in hospital for a month, had 2 emergency ops and spent most of his time in icu.)
The ambulance came pretty quick with 3 crew members. They did the observations and decided that yes indeed he did need to go to hospital. The conundrum came in the fact that it would be quicker for me to drive him the 30 minutes to a&e than for him to go in an ambulance, as once they got him there, unless his condition worsened, they would have to sit with him in the ambulance for 3-4 hours waiting for him to be admitted. This would make 3 crew and an ambulance unavailable for this amount of time!

I drove him in and dropped him off, and he got seen in 20 minutes. Not 3 hours, or even 1 hour. 20 minutes!!!!!

AIBU to be gobsmacked by the the whole situation, (apart from the 20 minutes, that was awesome). Don't get me wrong, I understand things have to be different because of covid, and I know the NHS are really really struggling. But surely there is a more efficient way of processing patients that frees everything up quicker than that

I think they gave you the worst case scenario knowing you were fully capable of driving, he wasn't in imminent danger, and they had other work to be getting on with.

Ten years ago my son had septicaemia and he would have died if we'd waited for the ambulance at the GP surgery. Instead my DH drove us at a dangerous speed to the hospital. Thank god.

Often though its 111 calling the ambulance. I've had this happen three times and each time I said I could drive the relevant person to hospital myself but they said no, they had called an ambulance.

I've only ever called an ambulance when someone needs stabilising or treatment en route. And from home, even then I'd want to set off driving and meet them on the way if at all possible because even if one was sat waiting for my call at the nearest hospital or town it would take at least 30 minutes to arrive in good conditions with no traffic. More likely 3x that even if they set off immediately.

I've also never experienced the assumption at A&E it's minor and you can wait unless you arrive by ambulance. Even reception staff are usually knowledgeable enough to get you triaged immediately, or very soon when it's obviously, or even possibly something urgent.

Yanbu that's ridiculous and if the ambulance paramedics told you that I would consider them to just be lazy

I guess they have a duty of care and can't just drop them off at hospital if they were taken in an ambulance?

My father in law was in a car accident last year (well before COVID) and was taken to hospital in an ambulance. By the time he was admitted the ambulance crew had changed shift twice and his son and daughter had driven up separately from four hours away to visit him in the ambulance!

Yanbu that's ridiculous and if the ambulance paramedics told you that I would consider them to just be lazy Wow I'd never consider that sensible reason as lazy.

@lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

Yanbu that's ridiculous and if the ambulance paramedics told you that I would consider them to just be lazy

If they were lazy, wouldn't they relish the chance to sit outside a hospital for a few hours?

Once my daughter was ill enough for us to call an ambulance. She has a long term condition which means she needs frequent admissions.

We waited two hours it didnt arrive. In the meantime my husband had come back from work and took us to hospital instead. I dont know how long it would have taken if we had waited.
Luckily she is a lot more stable now so hopefully we wont have to call another any time soon.

Unfortunatelly I do not think this is a new thing for ambulances, at this time of the year. Even pre-covid. They had ambulances waiting in mass outside the hospital and you could not get one to pick you up, when I broke my ankle in 2017 (my DH had to drive me there. My ankle was badly dislocated, that was why we called the ambulance, it was turning blue when we decided to risk the trip, and I had no pulse on it when we arrived). Another patient in my ward broke her hip in the bathroom. Elderly woman. On the bathroom floor in her house, she had to wait 5 hours for the ambulance. Third one had to walk in the snow with her daughter and little grandson with a broken and dislocated wrist. Again, no ambulance available. All this around Boxing Day. Apparently is the busiest time, they said.
We are running on very scarce resources on beds and ambulances on a normal day. You do not really realise this till you are in it, when you most need it.
I can imagine how covid has affected this.
You did the right thing and they adviced you right.
We do seriously need to through more resources into the NHS.
I hope he is doing well

Surely if he was able to (I assume) walk in and sit in the waiting room to be seen (albeit quickly), then the ambulance wouldn't have needed to wait so long to get him in? I was under the impression that the ambulance crew take people into the waiting room if able/don't need a bed space.

Hope your DH is OK.

@lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

Actually, you couldn’t be more wrong. Ambulance services have lots of different pathways and protocols to make sure that everyone isn’t just being dumped at A&E as a default. Including “on scene discharges” or speaking to the GP and dropping the patient there instead, calling the OOH GP and arranging for a prescription instead, and a new thing by some ambulance services is with elderly care home residents, is to call through to ED before leaving the care home, and speak to a Consultant to discuss the clinical history, PMH etc, the Consultant will the make a decision about whether the patient can come to ED or not, based on the likelihood of any meaningful treatment being offered.

I live 15 minutes walk away from an A&E so yes it is quicker for a neighbour to knock on my door or vice versa and get driven to there.

Yes you can end up taking the person to the wrong hospital as it isn't a major centre for particular conditions, but apparently my local hospital unlike a couple of others doesn't refuse to treat patients they will just transfer them as soon as they can.

I dunno, if I lived that near and he was well enough to walk into a&e I just can’t imagine ever calling an ambulance over driving him in, not even in normal times, never mind now!

Once there he would have entered the same triage system as everyone else. The fact that he was seen within 20 minutes makes me think the crew just wanted you to take him so they could go onto another call tbh.

I imagine the difference is that if he walked into A&E and his condition was serious enough to warrant immediate monitoring and treatment triage would have picked that up and he would be a priority. Had he arrived by ambulance that care would be provided by the paramedics who have access to monitors, fluids, O2, defibrillator etc. so he would be considered in safe hands until they had time/space to deal with him. My younger brother spent 5+ hours in an ambulance doing exactly that outside Barnet hospital on Boxing Day suffering from Covid complications then was admitted into ICU.

I went to a hospital yesterday evening simply to drop off a requested item for my DM who is on a Covid ward.

The queue of ambulances was 20+ deep, they were outside A&E and in the general car park. There was a significant queue of people on the footpath outside A&E standing in the cold to find out if they were ill enough to even be seen.
I'm truly glad your DH got seen in a timely fashion but many more didn't.

It would be quicker to drive I'm sure. I expect a friend of ours wishes he could have driven his wife into A&E when she'd had a stroke. Sadly she was unconscious and he couldn't get her down the stairs & into a car by himself. There was no ambulance available and they waited hours for help to come.

I had to take DS to ED in September with an acute asthma attack. We live 15-20 minutes away from our local hospital. I knew that it could and most likely would take over an hour for an ambulance to arrive had I called one so I took the decision to drive him there myself as he was deteriorating fast.
I did have a bit of a panic on our way round to the entrance from the car park though (couple of hundred yards) as he was becoming more and more unwell and I knew that I would have to leave him to run and get help if it was required as he is simply too big for me to pick up and carry in now.
I was very lucky that he was able to make it round under his own steam and then sat on the bench while I rushed in to ask reception if I was able to bring him in without a mask on.
Anyway, they were amazing and he was treated within 5 minutes of being through the doors- including having a portable X-ray.
Had I called an ambulance and waited, he may have died while waiting, and would have certainly needed admission to ITU.
However, I made this calculated decision based on sound clinical knowledge, knowledge of the system, knowledge of our town and local traffic conditions, observation of his rapid deterioration and the knowledge that my colleagues would know it was urgent if I turned up with him- they recognised his name, looked out into the waiting room and saw us immediately.
Sometimes it is far quicker to drive yourself but it is also a big risk if it’s a life threatening emergency. God forbid it ever happens again I would probably ask a neighbour to take us so I could deal with him if he suddenly had a respiratory arrest.
God I’ve frightened myself again now.

I think the point off 999 and A&E is slightly misunderstood. Late DH had a heart condition. On the first occasion they saved his life, unfortunately on the second despite everything he died.
Many years ago I was a nurse working in A&E then specialised in Intensive Care and Accute Cardicac care. Ambulance to recovery room then theatre followed monitored care in acute situations is amazing in this country. Hopefully most people will not need that.

Maybe the ambulance crew thought you should have taken him-which you did, which proves you shouldn’t have phoned for it in the first place and people like you are the problem. Hth.

Almost always quicker to drive to A&E. I would only call an ambulance for risk of life situation if I could drive

It sounds like they were politely trying to tell you that you didn't need to have rung an ambulance in the first place.

YANBU.

It has happened to us before. When we called an ambulance for my DD, I went in with her and DH followed in the car. I say followed, he went a different way to avoid traffic and arrived 15 minutes before the ambulance. It wasn't blue lighted though to be fair.

I should have said earlier I wasn't criticising paramedics. I know they do an amazing jib. Just so overstretched.