Teenage sleep - Really keen to have your advice on recalibrating sleep for a teen that's got topsy turvy ... hopefully before term starts!

[loveyouradvice]

Well, generally run down and recovering from a pre-Christmas virus y13 daughter has now slept from 8 am to 7 pm today.....

WHAT's THE BEST THING TO DO???

Nudge her back... so wakes up earlier and earlier over next few days....

Or Nudge her forward, which in many ways would be much easier... so going to sleep later and later til eventually she catches up with herself! eg Stays up to midday tomorrow (17 hour "day"), 4pm the next day, 8pm the next... and hopefully then back to "normal".

Even virus free she finds it very tough to get to sleep with a racing mind, probably exacerbated by pills she takes for her ADHD.

I had very bad sleep patterns as a teenager and young adult (and occasionally now as an actual adult..) I think the best would be nudging back, which will take some work, but keeping her awake during daylight will help with adjusting her circadian rhythm. So if she falls asleep at 8am, get her up at 4, then 3, then 2 etc until she's back to normal. I found personally that pushing forward just made things worse as it led to really long periods awake on my own in the dark, which isn't good for sleep or mental health.

Supposed to have a set routine week day and weekends
I would push her forward little by little esp if she is so far out of syn. Only by 30'kins or so every day.
I have dc who are terrible at sleeping.

*forgot to say, up at 4pm then bed at a normal-ish night time, adjusting it as progression is made.

I've got one of these teenage creatures as well. I'm doing a reset tonight. He's been asleep most of today. My plan is go to bed tonight at normal time, even though he won't sleep, then tomorrow morning drag him out the bed at usual morning time.

Sorted.

my ds is like this and magically gets back into routine for school. So I've learnt to just leave him to it.

I think with ADHD it is incredibly easy to turn sleep routine upsidedown. I know when my D's is out of normal routine, in less than a week his sleep is, upsidedown, horrendous (difficult at normal times anyway) all I can say is getting up earlish to try and keep in some routine, not much help for now but I know it's tough.

Depends if she is still recovering. Perhaps wake her at 9am and go for a walk. Then let her have an afternoon nap on sofa watching bit of tv. Then bed around her usual time. Keep repeating and hopefully she will nap less as she feels better

Thanks all... yes, ADHD does seem to muck around more things than I realised....

Still undecided - agree with nudging forward her getting up time being more sensible but know she would probably find going to bed later easier and means there isn't then a tussle over getting up times......

Very tempted by the idea that it might just sort itself but doubtful given her constitution isn't the strongest....

and sadly never has been a napper .... that would be very appealing if it worked.

I'd adore to take her for a morning walk and am a strong believer in all that sunlight triggering the melatonin and other responses ... but although she says yes the night before, its a definite No when trying to wake in the morning and counter productive....

All of course further complicated by the desire to be independent at this age and longing to be free of Mum and Dad!

What has she been doing for the last few days? Is today’s an anomaly or how it’s been for a while?

My DS has ADHD. He can't settle to sleep without melatonin. A low dose of 2mg is perfect. Can you ring GP to explain and ask for a one month prescription?

Yes walks early good idea. My D's goes on an evening too (he's an adult) and of course the obvious stuff like no devices including phones at least an hour before. My son has started reading before bed also as he finds difficult to switch his mind off but said it's helping. Oh also he finally relented and I got him a weighted blanket, he said it does help , not a cure but helpful. He also doesn't drink and fizzy drinks at all (his choice and hasn't done for a few years) as he says evena glass of lemonade messes his sleep up. All of this has taken years of my trying to help with/encouraging but he's now made all of these choices and changes himself and he's feeling much better for it (again I know it's not much help for now but worth keeping in mind ) X

My dd is always like this in holidays. We have found leaving her to it works well. she flips back to normal sleep patterns easily.

jaja that's hugely encouraging.... I feel like the incompetent mother on the side who's longing to help and isn't really managing to...

It's been like this most of the holidays but she did start them with a horrendous virus and was sleeping 16-18 hours a day at the beginning.

That said, it is a normal holiday pattern but not quite this bad - more like 5 or 6 in the morning over lockdown. Not something that happened pre ADHD meds, which she's been on for the last three years... but of course her age has changed too!

Yes is taking melatonin...... she thinks it helps

And I have ordered a weighted blanket a few days ago - worth a shot! And if she doesn't like it, I may try it - I'm finding it more difficult to get to sleep in Covid times than I did before

It's tough but keep up the amazing work 💪.
It makes me laugh as he thinks all these things that he now does/doesn't do were all his idea 😂 not that I've been suggesting (nagging) or talking about for the last few years. X

That's brilliant japa.... anything you did to encourage that - or just happened?

Useful phrases always appreciated!!

Just gotta wake 'em up & get them outdoors in daytime hours.
-Many a veteran of bed jetlag with toddlers.

When working night shifts, and thus sleeping all day, I always went for a short sharp shock approach. Basically, go to sleep at 8am as usual, get a solid 4hrs (ie a bit of REM) then get up at midday. Feels pretty awful but it works. Eat, exercise, get outdoors. Then head to bed in the late evening like normal people.

Nah it's easiest to keep them up so they miss a whole days sleep. Remember they are programmed to be nocturnal!!!

Beecham what a great approach ... I hadn't thought of trying that... going to suggest it and see what she says.... One painful day (and awakening) versus several seems a price worth paying!

Random have you tried it? Yes do think it could work but don't know anyone who has done it....

Anyone else out there that staying up longer and longer until you've caught up would work? So one day going to bed at midday - then at 4pm and eventually normal time......

What time does she take her meds? Are they quickly release or slow release?

How long a gap is there between her meds wearing off, and her taking the melatonin?

The key to "fixing" the sleep rhythm is actually food. If you don't eat on an all night flight then have breakfast and get sunlight, it can hack the circadian rhythm. I would make her eat breakfast lunch and dinner, even if she goes back to sleep, then she doesn't eat for twelve hours from say 7-7. Then food and sunshine and repeat. As a frequent international traveller it really does work. My friend who is an international athlete swears by it and so does Lewis Hamilton apparently!

Oh wow Confront that is brilliant .. she has been doing the teen thing of eating bacon sarnies at 3 in the morning.... which has felt all wrong to me.... This I think I can get her to buy into and as you say even if she goes back to sleep after breakfast!

Littlefish Meds... ADHD ones are slow release... takes at 11.30 in holidays and are meant to have worn off 12 hours later but!!!! and in school term takes them around 845 as they take 30 mins to kick in....

Melatonin she takes 20/30 mins before she wants to go to sleep so varies but typically midnight or later.....

Yes this is what my youngest does when she has messed up. Goes to bed later and later and eventually stays awake long enough to go to bed at 4pm or so and then wakes at a "normal" time to break the holiday cycle.

Interestingly she's been referred for ADD assessment!

I think you might need to consider waking her up at 9am with a cereal bar and her meds and then let her go back to sleep again. That way, they are out of her system earlier. (And she'll be much nicer when she wakes up at 11.30 )