To not pay rent until details confirmed

[Paymentconundrum]

More of a wwyd really.

Rent a property which is managed by an estate agents - so no contact details for landlord.

They sent an email through on I think the 20th saying that they are changing their name (a merger I assume) and next months payment should be made to - new bank details. No letter sent to our address etc.

We sent an email back saying we would need them to confirm this over the phone with someone we have spoken to before. Tried calling them myself as well.

An email was sent back by the person I usually contact (but with the new email address) saying sorry I will call you but have been off sick. Now they’re closed for Christmas and rent is due on the 1st.

While I’m pretty sure it’s legit - I’m nervous of paying £2500 into a new bank account when all we’ve really had are emails and none of them really verified.

So come the 1st do I
Pay it into the original bank as usual
Pay it to the new bank
Wait for them to open and confirm it (which I guess will be the 4th).

@AnotherDelphinium we don’t have landlords details at all - otherwise I would contact them directly (not just about this either).

I agree I would want to confirm it too! It’s a very risky and unprofessional way of the agent doing business. There should also be someone you can speak with properly even though it’s Christmas, usually there is an emergency contact isn’t there? So if you can’t get someone properly through that way it’s not your fault at all and it’s a bit cheeky expecting you to hand over so much no questions asked due to a random email request! You are so right to be cautious!

you have the right to the landlord's address.
ask the agency for it.

@Yummymummy2020 emergency contacts are direct with contractors - so plumbers etc.

However think I’ll wait until Monday. Was planning to, but wasn’t sure if I was being unreasonable or not.

A cheque is a good idea, put a cheque through the door, with a note that you will transfer the money on return of the cheque.

And 4 January is the next working day after the first anyway: it's not that long ago that you couldn't have paid it on time in January anyway. And nowadays it should transfer almost instantly once you receive confirmation.

Email scams can be incredibly clever and sophisticated. The company DH works for has connections to a company that lost quite a lot of money to a scam. Their emails had been hacked and the scammers had spent months just reading emails before they started the scam. It's a multinational company so many of them write with an 'accent' and apparently the scammers wrote in exactly the style of people that they were pretending to be. Every email was intercepted by them so any questions raised were never passed on to the correct person but were replied to by the scammers.

It's perfectly possible that in your case there are scammers who are taking advantage of the name change to get a month's rent from every property on the agent's books. They could clear up to a million in days, then clear out the account and disappear for ever. The agents sound very naive, and it seems needlessly stupid to do something like a name and account change over a period when they will be closed. Talk about making it easy for the scammers.

I don’t have a chequebook - and even if I did - I wouldn’t know whether to make it out to old name or new name.

Your bank will strongly advise you AGAINST making such a payment until you have confirmed the details.

Email again with copies of the previous emails attached.

In Scotland agents are legally obliged to give you the landlords details and registration number - in fact it has to be on the advert. Also you can check this online on the landlords register.

Why doesn't your husband who works in a solicitors office ask one of his colleagues for advice and refer to this in your email ?

Just checking - when you sent an email back did you reply to their email or send a new one? If you replied, I'd send a 'clean' email and attach a saved copy of the one you received, just state clearly that no money will be paid into new account until you have received confirmation via telephone call that this is not a scam.

@HidingFromDD that’s a really good point - all emails were sent via reply I think! I’ll do a fresh one now.

Reason being all the email addresses are new - so where previously they had been say “joebloggs@xestateagent they are now jiebloggs@yestateagent

When companies change their email address there’s always a system to forward them to the new addresses. But that won’t help if they have been intercepted by fraudsters.

However most companies don’t change their bank account, they just change the name. You could try phoning the fraud team at your bank or even at the estate agents bank.

When anyone changes bank accounts and I have a substantial amount of money to transfer, I do a transfer of under a pound.
I contact them to let them know this is a test amount and ask them to confirm they have it before transferring the remainder.

I'd advise you to do this and mark it as test amount on the transaction.

Email them to say what you've done.

I think it's quite acceptable to do this, I'm always quite nervous transferring sums of money, not least because numbers often muddle when I'm typing them out.

I echo planningaheadtoday advice.

Transfer £1 to the new bank account & email (a fresh email) to say you will call/visit on Monday 4th to confirm receipt then pay the rest

I can’t really see the point of the £1 transfer - I still couldn’t confirm it until Monday - by which time
I can just call them and transfer the lot.

I might be wrong, and apologies if someone has said this but, 1st Jan is a bank holiday so payment wouldn't reach a business account until Mon 4/01 anyway? So unless you were going to make a payment to be in their account tomorrow 31/12, waiting to speak to someone on 4/01 won't make much of a difference? You can still do a faster payment on Monday once you are happy you have correct bank details?

After I sent out an invoice with the bank details which was intercepted at their end and bank details changed you should always check as someone said above pay the old bank account.

Get on to Companies House online and look the company up, see what’s going on and if anything has changed.

I would think less about being late for the rent and more about being reasonable
I think the circumstances as you have laid them out, youm would be totally reasonable in waiting to confirm the bank remittance details before paying.
The delay would come directly from the agency. They should have proper back up details should one of the staff been unable to respond. Thats what they are getting paif for after all
If it is a scam just think of the problems that will cause.
Just relax, enjoy your christmas and new year and sort it out on the 4th

It is your LEGAL right to have your landlord’s name and address.

“You have legal right to your landlord's name and address
Section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 states that rent is not lawfully due unless the tenant has been given, in writing, an address in England and Wales at which notices can be served.“

It should be on the contract, which is between you and the landlord. It doesn’t matter if someone is managing it on behalf of the landlord.

I would call your bank's fraud line and ask their advice. I'm almost certain that it would be to wait until you can speak to someone to confirm. Then email them again saying you have the rent ready to be paid, but on the advice of your bank you would like to confirm the new details with them in case of fraud.

As a landlord (although a very small scale one) I would prefer you check, and would not have any issue with receiving rent a few days late while you verified. I would lay any blame with the estate agent who should know better than to communicate a change in bank details via email.

Wait. Not worth the risk.

Just send an email saying you’ll happily pay when you get the details you need - and list what you have tried to do to get them so they don’t try and stick you w a late fee.

You should have your landlord’s name and address. You have a right to it

Don’t make a payment until you hear from them.

I’d also be asking for your LL’s details and make sure they are aware of the reason for the delay in rent. The agents likely won’t tell them the actual reason.

@Grilledaubergines

Get on to Companies House online and look the company up, see what’s going on and if anything has changed.

She knows the EA has changed its name, that doesn't mean that a fraudster hasn't taken advantage of that to do an email Fraud, always check change of details by speaking to someone.

I'd definitely wait, it's a few hours really, the landlord probably won't even know as the EA isnt at work to transfer the money over until the 4th anyway and you dont know that it's done on the same day anyway.

The EA can't complain, they've been a bit slapdash in the way they've handled it.

As a LL who works in financial services I would want you to wait. The amount of inconvenience a fraud would cause is so much worse than a slightly delayed rent payment.

These sorts of frauds are well known and you are right to be cautious. The Agent is rubbish.