To ask why private hospitals can’t be requisitioned again

[ReadShakespeareonce]

They were in the first wave why can’t private hospitals be requestioned by the NHS?

I had some of my cancer treatment in a private hospital paid for by the NHS.

Sorry about your £80. But I was very grateful for the treatment 😊

No, most NHS work is definitely not being done by private hospitals. Case in point my mum’s 2mth waiting list for a specific cancer investigation was reduced to 12 days when I paid. Bear in mind we were told the NHS delays were ‘for her safety’ because of Covid and her being high risk but the same consultant is seeing her for upfront cash in a private hospital and they don’t have the same concerns

Part of my job at the moment involves assessing NHS patients and their suitability for surgery at the local private hospital.

Unfortunately, the private hospital has neither the facilities nor the staff to operate on the patients we would operate on in the NHS hospital. They have no HDU or ITU facilities. That means we have to be very selective about who we can send there. And obviously, major operations (such as bowel resections, elective abdominal aortic aneurysm repairs, removal of bladders etc), where there is a good chance/certainty the patient will need either an HDU/ITU bed post-op or access to anaesthetist for post-op pain relief purposes cannot be done at the private hospital.

The private hospital will take patients who are higher risk when they are paying directly. Part of the fee paid by the patient or their insurance company is to pay an anaesthetist to be available, to assess any non-surgical post-op complications or to manage post-op pain relief (such as inserting an epidural). We, as an NHS, can't afford to have an anaesthetist (who not only looks after patients in theatre but also looks after patients in ITU) sitting around just in case they are needed post-op.

Whilst using them is a good way of keeping the lists down, there is a limit on how we can use them.

Private Senior nurse here. Currently working flat out to clear elective NHS lists. All private hospitals should have been out of contract on 31st December however we have just had ours extended for another 3 months to support the NHS. I’m sure that’s the case for most private providers. We have hundreds of patients on the list to clear and like above poster I am spending a lot of my time prioritising patients. I can’t see us getting out of contract even in 3 months

Local private hospital being used by nhs, private staff being paid to do bugger all, nhs staff doing all the work. Very poor contract management.

I believe that part of the current problems are attributable to the shortage of suitably qualified medical staff. The UK already has less doctors and nurses per head of population than almost any other country in Europe. Private hospitals are not staffed in the same way as they do not routinely deal with the range of treatment the NHS does and the staff have different working patterns etc ; therefore it’s not as simple as co-opting more beds - patients need to be looked after.

I voted YABU

Simply because round here they never stopped providing 'clean' facilities for higher risk patients.

Someone I know was diagnosed with cancer late last year and has had two operations this year, both in private hospitals and one as recently as earlier this month

Because we are not Communists and do not 'requisition' private property or assets.

This already happens, I had ankle surgery at a private hospital as an NHS patient.

Also, as someone who has good quality health insurance £80 a month is genuinely laughable, people buy these extremely cheap policies and genuinely think they will just pay a co-pay.

@ekidmxcl

Not only are private hospitals doing work from NHS lists for the NHS, they are also full of desperate people who cannot get NHS treatment.

We need to get vaccinating very, very quickly and by the million. The clunky way people are being vaccinated now will take years to get through the population. I’d personally shut schools until the start of Feb and use the time to vaccinate everyone who will take the vaccine en masse - car parks, stadiums, wherever.

I don’t think stuffing private hospitals with Covid patients is the answer.

The vaccination programs being less "clunky" relies on the Oxford Vaccine being approved, the Pfizer one has a lot of storage and transport issues, and also mass clinics are difficult as social distancing and cleaning between pts still needs to be adhered to.

@ekidmxcl

And it seems ludicrous to requisition functioning hospitals when we have the nightingales.

The issue is staffing. There aren't the staff to run the Nightingales, but private hospitals already have staff.

And this is nothing new. My trust sent people to private hospitals for routine elective surgery as long ago as 2003. They did it to reduce the number of cases breaching waiting list targets, and still do.

There are also needy people on private lists. My Dh was in a lot of pain after the last shut down of private hospitals and had an op he had been waiting for cancelled. His health has deteriorated a lot over the last few months. He just got his op done privately in the days before Christmas. He had to get quite strident as frankly there is little point paying for something you’re not getting. If it hadn’t been done he’d have been an added drain on the NHS. Private healthcare is a business. Plenty paying for it aren’t all rich and some pay for it instead of other luxuries. If you don’t get what you’re paying for there is little point in having it. Less paying privately means more strain on the NHS.

And yes yes to many private hospitals not having the facilities needed. I remember being bundled into a car by my Dh many years ago after the private hospital treating me said I needed high dependency. They didn’t even arrange an ambulance. If I was critically ill I’d want to be in an NHS hospital every time.

@Crumbleandcake

I pay £80 per month in private medical insurance so I can have shorter waiting times, choose my hospital and consultant. It's not ok to just decide that the NHS are "taking over".

I think you'll find that your money still buys you the privilege of choice.

Of course, you may prefer to avoid those hospitals where you risk encountering us NHS paupers, but I expect that's easily done, especially if you're happy to go to London for treatment.

The private hospital will take patients who are higher risk when they are paying directly. Part of the fee paid by the patient or their insurance company is to pay an anaesthetist to be available, to assess any non-surgical post-op complications or to manage post-op pain relief (such as inserting an epidural). We, as an NHS, can't afford to have an anaesthetist (who not only looks after patients in theatre but also looks after patients in ITU) sitting around just in case they are needed post-op

Someone I know had a partial lobectomy at a private hospital 10 years ago. The anaesthetist's fee alone was £12k.

I'm not surprised the NHS can't afford it.

@ekidmxcl the Nightingale hospitals have been dismantled and all the equipment we paid millions for is back in store, including the ventilators. Either there is insufficient staff to run them, or they are not needed. Take your pick.
@GrumpyHoonMain yes, funny that, about treatment. I was told I would have to wait at least 18 months for investigations 'because of covid' until I flashed the cash, and then it was done in 7 days - in exactly the same place!

The private hospital will take patients who are higher risk when they are paying directly. Part of the fee paid by the patient or their insurance company is to pay an anaesthetist to be available, to assess any non-surgical post-op complications or to manage post-op pain relief (such as inserting an epidural). We, as an NHS, can't afford to have an anaesthetist (who not only looks after patients in theatre but also looks after patients in ITU) sitting around just in case they are needed post-op

That’s not actually the case. Private hospitals cannot take patients whose needs they cannot safely meet. They have very clear limitations on what procedures can be carried our after the Paterson Inquiry. It’s not about money for individual cases; it’s about the equipment and full range and experiences of staff required for higher risk patients. A few private hospitals in large cities do have some small critical care facilities but not many. All consultants work under practicing privileges normally, in private sector. They have the limitations on their practice made explicit in the agreement and cannot offer surgery the hospital is not resourced for.

The NHS does have consultants in critical care and on call at all times. They are usually intensivists not anaesthetists for level 3 critical care, although anaesthetists are also employed. They very rarely just do operations; they cover maternity epidurals, acute pain management, have oversight of deteriorating patients, cover theatres as well as manage every ventilated patient.

Most areas have anaesthetic consortiums that provide anaesthetic cover for both NHS and private sector and work together to ensure safe cover.
The lobectomy could be one of a number of operations from brain surgery to lung surgery to liver surgery to thyroid surgery. It simply means one lobe of an organ has been removed.

I think the problem is more a lack of qualified staff than a lack of physical beds.

The private hospital I work at is working flat out to treat as many patients as possible.

As pp said, the contract to treat overflow NHS patients has been extended to March, this is separate from the long-term contract to treat NHS choose and book patients. Our organisation is treating the NHS overflow patients at cost, not at profit.

And as other pp have said, my hospital doesn't have an ICU, so has to be very careful about which patients they can operate on. Entire NHS outpatient clinics have transferred to us, performing minor treatments on hundreds of patients every week.

80 quid a month? Less than 20 quid a week for private medicine?
You're having us on.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/cheap-health-insurance/

A healthy lifestyle can slash costs.

Covid isn’t flu, it causes multi organ failure. You can’t treat that in a private hospital.

It is affordable for many if paid instead of other luxuries. I suspect many pay for for car schemes per month.

Either way it’s something you pay for. If what you are paying for is removed there is no point.

I had NHS surgery for breast cancer at a private hospital.....the majority of cancer surgery is taking place in private hospitals where I live in the north west....less chance of patients catching Covid.

A lot of the doctors in private hospitals also work for the NHS.. I have used private healthcare twice now.

For my first op the consultation was held in a smaller building on the grounds of an nhs hospital, the consultant told me he walked between buildings for appointments.

The hospital I had my operation in was tiny, they are not well equipped to handle emergencies (I was having a routine procedure).

So between the private hospitals using the same staff as NHS and them not having the same emergency care / diagnostics as the NHS (cancer etc is not included in most private health cover) it’s really not the silver bullet

@Crumbleandcake

I pay £80 per month in private medical insurance so I can have shorter waiting times, choose my hospital and consultant. It's not ok to just decide that the NHS are "taking over".

For everyone hating on this post, imagine you were paying £80 a month for a lovely car on PCP and the government decided that everyone with a free bus pass was now entitled to use your car. Bet you’d feel different then!