Carers should be paid more money

[Vivana]

For what we do and what we have to deal with specially covid. Minimum wage is all I am on and have to run about for 12 hours with hardly no break.
I love the job and I'm lucky to have one but when dealing with residents who have covid it's so much more work and putting our health at risk. Wearing ppe all day is a nightmare including face visors. We also have to come on our days off for weekly covid testing as it's cumpolsary and now have to learn lateral Flow testing to residents can see there family's.
We should be paid much more than minimum wage. I probably am being unreasonable but I don't feel I am. The job is very rewarding but can be very sad and stressful to.

There needs to be higher education entry for applicants, more in depth training, because it’s an important job that requires educated and intelligent people.

I agree. I've said this a few times on this thread.

You do need skills to work in care weather they are appreciated and recognised is another matter

More to the point - whether they are formally recognised in a standardised training route for carers is key. That would help change the value placed upon care work.

@LouJ85 are we taking about skills here or you you talking about a recognisable qualification? Just because the entry level is basic this does not mean people who are carers have no skills.

To be a good carer you need a lot of skills. Have you done the job personally? I did it for nearly 3 years. I now working for NHS however I will look at carers and view them as someone will NO skill.

It’s obscene to suggest that.

are we taking about skills here or you you talking about a recognisable qualification?

I'm talking (again - I've said it several times) about entry requirements. If you require a formal qualification to enter into a profession, then you immediately narrow your pool of qualified applicants, before you've even reached interview stage. Since care workers doesn't have a formal qualification entry requirement (albeit you can complete training on the job etc, which I understand), then you have a wider pool of potential applicants to choose your staff from. That doesn't mean they'll be competent wonderful staff once recruited - of course they need particular skills (I acknowledge this several times on this thread in previous posts). But it does mean that you have a wider pool to recruit from.

Just because the entry level is basic this does not mean people who are carers have no skills.

No one said this - see above.

Have you done the job personally?

Yes I have, many years ago. Since then I have qualified in my field in mental health, which also has involved working very closely with many carers (some excellent, some not so), to support and help train them in their roles. So I'm well, well aware of the challenges of the role as well as the skill set required.

It’s obscene to suggest that.

No one has suggested that. You are confusing an argument about economic supply and demand (linked to the need for a stricter more formalised training route to gain entry to a profession), with an essentially moral argument about the value and skill set of carers. No one - least of all me - is disputing that carers are a valuable resource who need to possess a certain set of skills to be effective in their jobs. I am saying that until this is formally recognised by the powers that be (whoever they are), in the form of a standardised training route into care professions, the economic value (not to be confused with the moral value), places upon carers (and therefore their pay) is unlikely to change.

I won't repeat the above again - this is about my 5th post to clarify the same issues.

Just sympathies to all carers.

It's a very very hard job. Mentally, physically (try turning a large person) and emotionally. And it has the same unpredictability for the most part as high fee earning lawyers or medics - 12 hour days, often unpaid overtime in a home - uncertain hours, being called in to cover, but not being able to afford wrap around childcare so swapping with partner and only seeing partner briefly.

And facing the risk of Covid more so than many because of the physical intimacy, lack of PPE initially, etc.

There are qualifcations but as a PP has said, if there are people who can fill the roster no one checks the suitability. And no one can estimate the value of empathy and kindness.

Governments for 40 years haven't been able to sort this out. Transient staff don't tend to be unionised especially since many are immigrants working where they can.

@NYNY211

And - if you'd read any of my previous posts on this thread, you'd have perhaps been less defensive in your reply to me, as you'd have seen that I empathised wholeheartedly with the work carers do, to the extent I used to tell them in a previous role when I met with them that I couldn't do what they do. I take my hat off to carers, I truly do.

Carers are the backbone of health and social care. Without them the whole health care system would literally grind to a halt.

They are so under appreciated and woefully underpaid for what they’re expected to do. They are in shorter and shorter supply now as supermarkets and basic admin jobs pay a similar amount and often have better in work benefits, but are much less stressful and all consuming. It’s so wrong.

@Livelovebehappy

I’ve been saying for a long time that the education requirement for a carer should be higher than what it is. The wage currently for most carers is minimum wage and, no offence OP, but this then just attracts mostly uneducated and poor quality carers which in turn means poor quality care for our elderly and vulnerable people. There needs to be higher education entry for applicants, more in depth training, because it’s an important job that requires educated and intelligent people.

Completely agree with this.

@Livelovebehappy

I’ve been saying for a long time that the education requirement for a carer should be higher than what it is. The wage currently for most carers is minimum wage and, no offence OP, but this then just attracts mostly uneducated and poor quality carers which in turn means poor quality care for our elderly and vulnerable people. There needs to be higher education entry for applicants, more in depth training, because it’s an important job that requires educated and intelligent people.

The thing is with this if they raise the hourly rate... nurses and companies like NHS HCA will want a similar wage too or perhaps they would leave and become a carer too.

The government needs to ensure that social care is funded in the same way the NHS is. And we all need to pay for it.....if we don't, our old age is going to be very grim indeed...unless you are very wealthy of course, and can afford to pay your care team the hourly wage you think you deserve. TBH many councils have already added a precept to council tax to pay for social care, so why don't the government just say "ok, you're not going to like it...but we are taxing you in order for you to have peace of mind that you'll be well supported in your old age. "At least then, when the NHS kick your 90 year old gran out of hospital at 2am (because she is "medically optimised")..social care might have a hope in hell of getting to her in time before she falls in the hallway and fractures her hip...thus being readmitted in the never ending shit storm that is our Health and Social Care system. Rant ended...wow that was cathartic

Ps....I'm frightened of getting old. I have seen some examples of terrible care in hospitals (given by apparently highly educated professionals and I have witnessed the most amazing carers in the community...but there is no consistency...I hope I never need hospital care when I'm old and I hope I never need care at home. It's unlikely, but it fills me with dread.

I've noticed a couple of people asking where the money will come from to increase wages. Can I just add that the majority of care homes/ residential mental health hospitals are privately owned and make MILLIONs of pounds every year either from private clients and/ or the NHS/ government substidies and still do not pay their essential staff a living wage.

The company I've worked for deals with poorly children with mental health conditions and have a website that attracts investment from wealthy people and gives them huge returns on their investments! The majority of their income comes from the NHS using their beds and the facilities certainly aren't up to scratch. Rich people making more money, 1st out of mentally ill children and 2nd out of the front line workers, despicable.

You are certainly not being unreasonable!

@LouJ85

If it helps at all your posts make perfect sense and explain the situation quite clearly, at least in my opinion.

This is always one of those tough things for people to get the arms around... when the human value doesn’t necessarily match the economic value.

At the end of the day, all jobs require skill to perform (nobody here is debating that fact) The real question is how long that skill takes to acquire, what is the cost of acquiring that skill, and what is the rarity of that skill.

Now add to this, the intangible things like disposition, interest, and availability of jobs and that is how the economic rules of supply and demand get applied to how much a job is ‘worth’ monetarily.

Carers absolutely deserve a better wage. But it is wrong to say private care homes are raking in thousands of pounds in profit; I can provide a breakdown of why this is not the case: social care is not well funded (it might seem like a huge amount £800 for nursing care, but when broken down honestly for most homes there is very little left). Usually the last bed/last few beds of occupancy are "profit". Very few homes are 100% full all the time

[quote saltinesandcoffeecups]@LouJ85

If it helps at all your posts make perfect sense and explain the situation quite clearly, at least in my opinion.

This is always one of those tough things for people to get the arms around... when the human value doesn’t necessarily match the economic value.

At the end of the day, all jobs require skill to perform (nobody here is debating that fact) The real question is how long that skill takes to acquire, what is the cost of acquiring that skill, and what is the rarity of that skill.

Now add to this, the intangible things like disposition, interest, and availability of jobs and that is how the economic rules of supply and demand get applied to how much a job is ‘worth’ monetarily.[/quote]

Thank you. And yes your summary is spot on. I'd repeated it several times so it was becoming a little tedious. But I'm glad you see the point I was making.

@LouJ85

There needs to be higher education entry for applicants, more in depth training, because it’s an important job that requires educated and intelligent people.

I agree. I've said this a few times on this thread.

Good luck with that. Can barely find the staff as it is...

No one should be making a profit out of healthcare, whether it's hundreds or thousands or millions of pounds, it's morally wrong.

Absolutely.

People need to realise just how fucking hard it is abs the skills it requires.

I've worked on mental health units, and in specialist dementia care.

All I got, especially in dementia care, was head tilts and told how lovey it must be to chat to elderly people all day.

People have no fucking clue.

I've also got qualified to nurse practitioner level, off my own back and at my own expense for no return, the money was still terrible.

But it's still joked about in my family that I wipe arses and chat to old dears all day, when actuallly, my last on was 12 hour night shifts being physically attacked regularly by people with korsakoff dementia, usually also suffering from severe mental health disorders. These were usually young people too, most of them bigger and stronger than me.

But yea...I go to work and chat about the war with little old ladies.

@WankPuffins I did a night shift last night, on my feet for 12 1/2 hours. It may not be physically draining but mentally draining. But I do lovely looking after dementia residents.

It's not easy is it.

I will never ever be able to express my admiration, gratitude and respect for the carers looking after my sister. They are amazing. They manage complex health needs with advice usually from a distance. They provide compassionate gentle care to the most vulnerable and have a level of knowledge about caring which is beyond ‘anyone can do it’.

I agree issues of pay are based on qualifications ....and therefore suggest a vocational care certificate working up to diploma level which equates to a Band 4 agenda for change.

This would mean you can recruit into a service desperate for staff without barriers but those who persist, commit and train are rewarded appropriately.

Who pays....well we could argue that individuals needing care do but those of us with relatives with cancer do not need to pay for hospice care. Requiring care because of a disease like dementia, learning disabilities etc should always be state funded to ensure the educational framework is supported and viable and funding for health is a shared society responsibility

@vodkaredbullgirl it's really not. I worked on a huge unit in a private care home with elderly dementia patients.

There were just not enough staff, especially at night. One nurse and 4 HCA. It was just a constant conveyor belt of repositioning, toileting/changing/getting people up.
It wants heartbreaking to have to start getting residents up and ready for the day from 4:30 am just so they could all be up, washed and dressed by the time the day shift began.
The owners of the chain were raking in the money and we were allowed no time to show any compassion or care. It was just quick and on to the next one day in, day out.
It broke my heart.

Count yourself lucky. The full time carers of disabled children and adult relatives get far below minimum wage. They get paid a £1.92/hr carers allowance capped at £67.25 per week. So even if they work more than 35hrs a week, they get no more money.

Another mental health unit I worked in refused to pay for cleaners, so the staff who should have been spending time caring for the residents spent most of their shift cleaning the place.

I worked nights and the managers used to do surprise inspections to check the staff weren't sleeping and that they had cleaned properly.
My first inspection, I was shocked to hell to find that they didn't ask one thing about the residents - they just did spot checks to make sure the sofa had been vacuumed under and there were no crumbs left in the toaster. Absolutely unbelievable.

(One of the reasons they didn't/couldn't have cleaners is that in London, no cleaner is going to work for min wage. So the cleaners would have been earning more than the health care assistants which would have caused hell).

*I agree issues of pay are based on qualifications ....and therefore suggest a vocational care certificate working up to diploma level which equates to a Band 4 agenda for change.

This would mean you can recruit into a service desperate for staff without barriers but those who persist, commit and train are rewarded appropriately.*

Yes and by doing this hopefully you'd end up with only really good quality and committed staff, thus reducing poor quality care and staff turnover etc ...

I'm a senior carer in a dementia residential home, there is just me and 2 other carers. Not only do we care for the residents we also do some cleaning. Setting up the breakfast tables, sweep and mop floors also hoovering the main lounge. There is never a night where everyone is in bed. Bells going off left right and centre, as many are at risk of falls.

We have some agency who come and don't come back. They often say why do we do these things and why are every resident not in bed.

That's how we work in the home.