Genuinely asking for a friend

[goldpendant]

I think she IBU, for the record.

She wants to have her parents over for Christmas because they've previously formed a childcare support bubble. Parents pick up her son one day a week. Both families in neighbouring tier 4 boroughs.

Neither family have been isolating this last week since school finished.

Her parents are almost 80.

Guidance is utterly muddy but from what I can tell, pre existing childcare bubbles can exist over Christmas for the purpose of childcare only, where no other reasonable option exists.

So as not to drip feed, this isn't me sticking my beak in, it's family... we'd all collectively taken the decision to abandon Christmas bubble before tier 4 restrictions came in, but they seek to want to bend the rules. We will stay alone as I thought is expected of us in tier 4.

Who IBU?

Bumping.

I've never posted in AIBU before and known tumbleweed!

Its not your business. They have both made the decision.

Is she a single parent?
If so, it’s fine according to the rules.
If not, it’s not fine according to the rules.

However it is one day, and not mixing now will mean fewer deaths and shorter lockdowns in weeks to come.
Everyone needs to play their part or this will never end.

She's not single no, she has DH and DS. Can see no valid reason for them to meet up other than to just be together - something hundreds of thousands of families are sacrificing.

It's our business because the 70+ year olds she intends to have over are close family!

I won't intervene, I agree it's their decision to make, I just think it's really selfish and if the rest of the country applied the same logic we'll be even more in the shit.

I guess I'm just really surprised and a bit disappointed by them all. I work in a covid related response role and I think it's really short sighted.

I think we all need to be aware that just because something is allowed, doesn't make it lower risk. My parents are my childcare bubble, dp and I work from home, so our only likely risk factor is the children. It's not safe at all and I'm petrified of transmission from the school kids to the grandparents, but we do it as we have no other real choices.
As the kids have been out of school 5 days, they're probably a safer bet than they have been during the term.
Just because it's allowed doesn't make it safer, unless the parents have high risk jobs I can't see what difference spending Christmas together will make.

Rule benders are such bell ends.

And honestly, it's not just your business, it's EVERYONE'S business right now!!

So many people moaning this is dragging out on one hand and breaking rules the other.

We can't have it both ways.

Childcare bubbles are for childcare not for socialising. They should not be doing this, unfortunately there seems to be so many people that think rules shouldn’t apply to them.

Thanks to those that have replied. I feel like I'm being a stick in the mud sticking to guidance and by referring them all to it. Just can't believe some people can't forego one year for the bigger picture.

Childcare bubble is for childcare- when parents are not present.

So cannot have multiple adults and child.

Grandparents can only be there if parents aren’t.

Unless the parent is a single parent or
The child is under one year old.

Please don't 'refer them to the guidance'. They are all adults. If they have been mixing up to now with the kids in school, it makes no discernable difference to their risk at this point.

I agree we all need to keep our distance from others but our government simply doesn’t have a handle on this.
It absolutely baffles me that people have been shopping in malls and mixing in pubs and restaurants (we’ve done none of these things) and that’s been totally allowed.
We’ve isolated since DC finished school and we’ve had COVID tests (at the request of our local council) and we’re negative. My parents haven’t been out anywhere, we’ve been doing their shopping or they’ve been getting deliveries... since March.
And we’re not allowed to see them at Christmas. We’re all in Tier 4.
The rules have supported people to spend their money with scant regard for the spread but once the pounds have been spent it’s a different story.
I can see why people are seeking to bend the rules.
I want this to all be over but this on/off approach to isolating isn’t working.

I know other people using the childcare bubble to justify a family gathering and I think it's silly of them because of the risks

You title is not right, you are not asking for a friend, you are posting so other people can bash them

It’s obviously against the rules.

However it really irritates me when I see posts like this saying parents/family members are elderly/older, being old does not mean they don’t have the capacity to make their own decisions. If they have capacity and are fully aware of the risks they are grown adults with their own autonomy. It shouldn’t be happening but we need to stop treating the older generation like children, we will likely be old one day and I know I won’t like people talking to or about me like I am a child.

SIBU

Childcare bubbles are for childcare only, not adult socialising.

Agree with PP, our actions don’t only affect us, the more people “bend” or break the rules the more covid will spread

She's being unreasonable. We had a similar situation, we explained to the parents that it was their decision and we couldn't tell them what to do, but we weren't happy with the others for pressuring them to do something against their shielding, we didn't think it was safe and that if they were to get ill or die we didn't think the family could ever recover from the bitterness, blame and guilt.

Quite apart from the guidance, they do need to think seriously about the risks and not just assume that infection can't happen to them. We've learnt about this the hard way this week - after months of obeying all the rules, DH has got Covid: we have no idea how he got it, but assume he either got it from someone he had to meet for work purposes or at a supermarket or similar. It really brought home to us just how infectious this thing is, particularly (I suspect) the new variant.

Please don't 'refer them to the guidance'. They are all adults. If they have been mixing up to now with the kids in school, it makes no discernable difference to their risk at this point.

Of course it makes a discernable difference! Anyone may have been in contact with Covid since the last time the grandparents were seen.
One in three cases are asymptomatic. One in three! This is one of the reasons this virus is so efficient at spreading itself.

If my parents were almost 80 I would be spending xmas with them too. They might not be here next Xmas.
You've made your decision, let them make theirs.

@MaryLeeOnHigh

Quite apart from the guidance, they do need to think seriously about the risks and not just assume that infection can't happen to them. We've learnt about this the hard way this week - after months of obeying all the rules, DH has got Covid: we have no idea how he got it, but assume he either got it from someone he had to meet for work purposes or at a supermarket or similar. It really brought home to us just how infectious this thing is, particularly (I suspect) the new variant.

Maybe they have thought about the guidance and made the decision that they would rather take the risk of spending a potentially last Christmas with their family than yet another year of this shit show of seeing no one and being isolated and regretting that they didn't get to see their loved ones.

Without getting into a rant about the serious destruction of civil liberties that we are seeing, People are entitled to disagree with the guidance and make their own decisions about what is best for them you know 🙄

Childcare bubble does not apply.
Support bubble does not apply.
T4 NO Christmas Bubbles.

Explain this to BOTH sides if you care about them.

Explain this to both sides if you care about community transmission.

Keep quiet if you only care about not being the bad guy.

It's not easy when you're the sane one, but they need telling.

@tiredqueen

It's not only their risk though. It risks lots more people getting it & potentially dying & it risks hospital bed capacity for everyone else.

@tiredqueen

If my parents were almost 80 I would be spending xmas with them too. They might not be here next Xmas. You've made your decision, let them make theirs.

Much less likely to be here next year if people insist on visiting them.

@MaryLeeOnHigh

Quite apart from the guidance, they do need to think seriously about the risks and not just assume that infection can't happen to them. We've learnt about this the hard way this week - after months of obeying all the rules, DH has got Covid: we have no idea how he got it, but assume he either got it from someone he had to meet for work purposes or at a supermarket or similar. It really brought home to us just how infectious this thing is, particularly (I suspect) the new variant.

I hope he has a mild case & can stay home.

It's hard I know, especially at Christmas, but try to isolate from him as much as possible so you don't get it too.

Hope he's well again soon

The thing is its very difficult when people are mentally competent to identify that a meal in a busy pub surrounded by strangers at neighbouring tables, is clearly higher risk, that two households isolating and then coming together for a small gathering. But one of those things involve money being spent which the government need for the economy, the other doesn't, so guess which is "allowed".

So then people start to feel they should decide for themselves based on the actual real risk. But not everyone is so good at doing this and some people take it too far.