To wonder why we always call doctors by their last name

[Loveandpeace56]

In any other profession this wouldn’t be the case. Even teachers do often refer to themselves by their first names but with a doctor this would never happen.

[quote AgeLikeWine]@DougRossIsTheBoss

I hope I do not come into contact with you in your professional capacity because, while I do not question your qualifications or competence, the patronising and condescending attitude you have displayed on this thread indicates that you and I would not get on.[/quote]
I feel the same way - I have come across similar doctors and I refuse to deal with them again...we have one at our local GPs. They are always the ones with available appointments - do they wonder why and if they do, are they blaming their patients or wondering if their attitude needs shifting. I suspect they think they are always right!😂

i sat on a chair with my breasts exposed - no curtains while doctors walked in and out of the room without knocking - I expressed alarm at the situation, I was told nothing could be done - it was standard procedure - I made a formal complaint - encouraged by the nursing staff who also found the situation unacceptable and it was rebuffed. I complained to my referring consultant who was horrified - the NHS had listened to patients comments - like mine and had changed their approach. Money didn't help the power dynamics - I was being seen in a private hospital and I didn't give two shits that the Dr address me as Ms and I addressed him at Mr, I felt utterly exposed, vulnerable and violated by the experience - I think lots of Drs focus on their own protection not their patients comfort - the power balance needs to change.

[quote melisande99]@TheSandman I'm doubly confused.

1. Of course surnames change. I should think the majority of women alive today in the UK have changed their surname at least once. Whereas surely only a tiny minority of people have changed their first names.
2. I don't understand why you haven't had your first name changed on your medical records, if you've not used it in 35 years. Did you not get a deed poll and have it changed elsewhere?[/quote]
3. You're right - I was talking from my perspective ( I'm male) and should have thought that through.

1. Never changed my name by deed poll. Never felt the need to. In Scotland you can, as I understand it, call yourself whatever you want as long as you're not doing it with criminal intent. The only people who use my original name are the Inland Revenue and whoever keeps my Medical Records.

Even if was still using my original name - a three syllable name open to many variations it would still be safer to use my surname.

Say a patient was called Mary Elizabeth Jones. Variations on Elizabeth include Liz, Lizzy, Beth, Bet, Betty, Bess, Bessy and so on:

appellationmountain.net/unexpected-elizabeth-nicknames/

If the unmarried Miss Mary Elizabeth Jones had been know as 'Lizzy' all her life wouldn't it be less confusing (to her) coming out of an anaesthetic to call her 'Ms Jones' rather than 'Mary'?

"I complained to my referring consultant who was horrified - the NHS had listened to patients comments - like mine and had changed their approach. Money didn't help the power dynamics - I was being seen in a private hospital"

Maybe not money but class in the sense that you knew how to make a complaint and get yourself listened to.

"If the unmarried Miss Mary Elizabeth Jones had been know as 'Lizzy' all her life wouldn't it be less confusing (to her) coming out of an anaesthetic to call her 'Ms Jones' rather than 'Mary'?"

Mary wasn't one of the Elizabeth nicknames given in your link. But why would she be called by a nickname anyway? She'd be called by her official first name wouldn't she.
I think people coming out of GA should be addressed the way they prefer to be addressed anyway. An elderly person may well never be called by their first name once they reach 85 or 90.

@Gwenhwyfar

"I complained to my referring consultant who was horrified - the NHS had listened to patients comments - like mine and had changed their approach. Money didn't help the power dynamics - I was being seen in a private hospital"

Maybe not money but class in the sense that you knew how to make a complaint and get yourself listened to.

I had the awful experience though. I am a bit gobby (I still feel annoyed with myself for not being more assertive but I felt vulnerable and I really resent that they made me feel that way), but in the most part older people have the procedure I've had - they wouldn't complain as strongly as I did according to my consultant because they'd respect the medical profession too much! Respecting a profession is not a good thing imo - it leaves patients exposed to shitty behaviour - even the gobby ones!

Another example: Once after she had had a fall and hurt her wrist I took one of my children to a dedicated Children's A&E . There, in an attempt to be friendly and less intimidating, patients were addressed with their first names. We were there for a while and saw several doctors. It was only when I asked why exactly they were plastering my DD's arm that it became apparent they had the wrong (not uncommon first name) in the plastering room and were about to discharge another person's DD (with the same not uncommon first name and a broken wrist) with some paracetamol and some sound (but wrong) advice about resting it.

If surnames had been used, the right girls would have got the treatment sooner.

No she wouldn't necessarily be called by her full name @gwenhwyfar. My first name is unusual - henrietta genre - countless nurses have said of shall I call you Hen, etc - I was woken to it in theatre once. It is never shortened, ever, and nobody has the right to assume it may be. And I'd have preferred to be woken-up with Mrs Hellebores if "the lot of them" to steal a phrase can't be bothered at the very east to use my correct first name.

@TheSandman

Another example: Once after she had had a fall and hurt her wrist I took one of my children to a dedicated Children's A&E . There, in an attempt to be friendly and less intimidating, patients were addressed with their first names. We were there for a while and saw several doctors. It was only when I asked why exactly they were plastering my DD's arm that it became apparent they had the wrong (not uncommon first name) in the plastering room and were about to discharge another person's DD (with the same not uncommon first name and a broken wrist) with some paracetamol and some sound (but wrong) advice about resting it.

If surnames had been used, the right girls would have got the treatment sooner.

Surely first name last name and dob at least should have been checked before any procedure - the experience you describe sounds like a situation from decades ago when these mistakes were more common - sadly they still happen - wrong leg, arm operated on etc it's not about titles and surnames...relying on that scant info alone would be bloody daft.

@Gwenhwyfar

"If the unmarried Miss Mary Elizabeth Jones had been know as 'Lizzy' all her life wouldn't it be less confusing (to her) coming out of an anaesthetic to call her 'Ms Jones' rather than 'Mary'?"

Mary wasn't one of the Elizabeth nicknames given in your link. But why would she be called by a nickname anyway? She'd be called by her official first name wouldn't she.
I think people coming out of GA should be addressed the way they prefer to be addressed anyway. An elderly person may well never be called by their first name once they reach 85 or 90.

Mary is not a diminutive of Elizabeth. I never said it was.

On paper she is called Mary E Jones. Unless it has been specifically written in big bold letters on the piece of paper the nurse has in her hand, 'Call this patient Lizzy' any reasonable person would assume the person in front of them was called Mary.

So, if she had been called 'Lizzy' by her family and friends all her life...

I can assure you that coming out of anaesthetic being called by the name that was first on my medical records, a name I hadn't been called by for years, was a very confusing and unsettling experience.

I totally missed the Mary as the official first name thing.

"If surnames had been used, the right girls would have got the treatment sooner."

Only if first names AND surnames had been used surely otherwise they still could have confused one little Miss Smith for another.

"Respecting a profession is not a good thing imo - it leaves patients exposed to shitty behaviour - even the gobby ones!"

Oh yes, there's a difference between being polite and being deferential.

@TroysMammy

pigsDOfly they don't call them Dr Mary or Dr John which is acceptable they just call them Mary or John but the GP's never introduce themselves as Mary or John but as Dr Mary surname or Dr John surname.

Yes, I understand that.

My point was that if a doctor introduces themselves to a patient as Dr John, which is the sort of language a doctor might use when talking to a child in order to make themselves seem friendly and less scary, it will make many patients feel that they are being spoken to in a way that infantilising them.

Therefore they will drop the Dr title and just refer to the doctor as John in an effort to make it clear that they don't like to be patronised, particularly if the doctor uses their first name.

Surely first name last name and dob at least should have been checked before any procedure - the experience you describe sounds like a situation from decades ago when these mistakes were more common - sadly they still happen - wrong leg, arm operated on etc it's not about titles and surnames...relying on that scant info alone would be bloody daft.

This only happened about 6 years ago. I'm sure some basic cross-checking cock-up happened. There was certainly a mad flurry of "Oh Crap!" and frantic apologies were proffered when it became apparent they had nearly screwed up big time. And I'm sure someone got a bollocking when we were out of sight.

It was a quite day and there weren't that many patients in. The chances of two similarly-aged girls with similar (one obviously a lot more serious than the other) injuries attending at the same time was vanishingly small. But it happened.

If surnames had been used more it would have been avoided. Or at least discovered sooner. Basically, if I hadn't asked and been told about some X rays that I knew hadn't been taken of my daughter, we would have walked out of there none the wiser.

Oh I don't know pigsdofly the next time a Dr introduces themselves as Dr Kate or Dr Jane I think I'm going to smile sweetly and say "how lovely, you may call me Mrs Henrietta . I once had to tell a Polish cleaner to stop doing that .

Well exactly RosesAndHellebores

Your Polish cleaner's response was absolutely correct imo

I shall remember it if a doctor ever introduces herself to me as doctor Kate and will ask said doctor to call me Mrs Pigs.

@TheSandman

Surely first name last name and dob at least should have been checked before any procedure - the experience you describe sounds like a situation from decades ago when these mistakes were more common - sadly they still happen - wrong leg, arm operated on etc it's not about titles and surnames...relying on that scant info alone would be bloody daft.

This only happened about 6 years ago. I'm sure some basic cross-checking cock-up happened. There was certainly a mad flurry of "Oh Crap!" and frantic apologies were proffered when it became apparent they had nearly screwed up big time. And I'm sure someone got a bollocking when we were out of sight.

It was a quite day and there weren't that many patients in. The chances of two similarly-aged girls with similar (one obviously a lot more serious than the other) injuries attending at the same time was vanishingly small. But it happened.

If surnames had been used more it would have been avoided. Or at least discovered sooner. Basically, if I hadn't asked and been told about some X rays that I knew hadn't been taken of my daughter, we would have walked out of there none the wiser.

I find it weird that last name was not checked - every time I have have had a medical procedure first name last name and dob were checked - but surely you aren’t suggesting that surnames alone would be adequate? There are loads of common surnames too!

Thinking back yes it was strange no DOB Surname check but, at the time, everyone was being nice and friendly and it was all going swimmingly. A stress free time (which I appreciated as DD is on the ASD and doesn't deal with stress at all well) under what could have been very stressful circumstances.

No, I'm not suggesting surnames alone would have been foolproof but I think it was foolish to ignore them altogether.

To me it feels terribly anachronistic to call a doctor (or be expected to call a doctor) Dr Smith/ Ms Smith/Mr Smith etc. In practically every other professional relationship , (yes, teachers aside but they are dealing with children), first names are now generally used.
DH is an accountant with 30 years experience, but if he expected clients to call him Mr Doesn'tlisten, they would probably a) laugh, b) walk away or c) think he's a bit pompous.
If a doctor introduces himself/ herself as John/ Jane, the GP/ doctor treating you etc., I think most people can realise what their role is. I don't believe they need the 'Dr' title to get it. I also personally think to insist on formal titles suggests that you are quite insecure.

Lots of Doctors introduce themselves to patients using their first name, and will also expect their colleagues (other doctors, nurses etc) to use their first name.

In the hospital my husband works at he always uses his first name with everyone, and will actually correct people refer to him as "Dr Last Name" and ask them to call him by his first name. The only time he ever calls anyone else "Dr Last Name" is if it's a Consultant who has introduced themselves in that way. Medicine can be a bit old fashioned in terms of the ranking system, so if the most senior doctor in the room expects everyone to call them "Dr last name" then they will do it.

Interesting--I've been in the USA for several years and here, I always call doctors by their title and surname, even when we have a social relationship outside the office, and they call me Mrs Nerd. Similarly with teachers, though there is one that my dc2 has had for several years now (special education) and we are now on a first name basis. Teachers are Mr and Ms. Sometimes Mrs but in my part of the country no one uses Miss here for adults unless they are student teachers. Or little kids, who call their teachers Miss Firstname.

It bothers me slightly that the doctor is Dr Johnson but no matter how much training a nurse has she is just Jane. Nurse Johnson sounds terribly 1950s though. After the flap with Jill Biden a few weeks ago, loads of women here wrote about how they are treated differently when it comes to titles.

the only time I hear Dr Bill is in pediatrics, where they also have an annoying habit here of calling me "mom".

Down South it's very important for kids to address adults properly and Sir and Ma'am the grownups. On the West Coast they are more familiar.

rachelbloomfan

I've been out of the NHS longer than I was in now, and I know more electronic notes are used, but we used to write the patient's name with their preference in capitals so

MRS Jane SMITH - prefers to be called Mrs Smith

Mrs JANE Smith - prefers to be called Jane

It gets complicated, though. If the nurses introduce themselves as Kate and Sue, I’m happy for them to call me Jane. Ms Cattenberg would be too formal. But if the doctor calls herself Dr Waterbury, I’d prefer for her to call me Ms Cattenberg.

@TheSandman so it sounds like your situation is different to the hypothetical Mary Elizabeth "Lizzy" Jones situation.

Correct me if I've misread, but it sounds like you were born "Jeremy Smith" and, 35 years ago, decided to be known as "Kevin Smith". You changed your name everywhere except with your doctor and the Inland Revenue. Presumably Scottish law would have allowed you to do this, one way or another, deed poll or not. But you didn't, therefore those people still think you are called "Jeremy".

My grandmother was in the "Lizzy" situation in hospital, and yes, they should have called her "Mrs Jones" instead of presuming on "Mary". She could then have invited them to call her "Lizzy" if she so wished.

However, for her the displeasure was from being addressed informally. For you, it seems the displeasure was specifically around the use of a name that you dislike being called, even though they had no way of knowing otherwise. That's more like me getting married, changing my surname but not letting the doctors know, then getting upset that they call out for "Miss Symonds" instead of "Mrs Johnson".