Do you think our relationship with the natural world needs re-examining in light of?

[TheBuffster]

Has the pandemic made anyone scrutinize their relationship with nature?
Obviously started as a zoonotic disease and is not unique in that it's the conditions animals kept for food are kept in that allow these to flourish. BSE originated in the UK and Spanish Flu weirdly in the USA, so it's not simply a case of other nations being not up to scratch in the way they treat their animals.
My mum and dad have cut down on their meat consumption in the pandemic significantly, as had my sister. Just curious if anyone else is making conscientious purchases?
YABU- no I'm carrying on as before
YABU- I have made some changes

YABU- I have made some changes

Yes, I was already getting increasingly alarmed about environmental issues, but I think the pandemic has given me a heightened sense of worry about it. I've stopped eating meat as a first step, we're already pretty low consumption and generally get the vast majority of anything we do buy secondhand. Still there's much much more for us to do and I can't help but feel maybe we're just fucked anyway, but at least I'll have tried.

Yes, it's easy to think we're fucked so why bother? But nature is amazing at healing itself. I watched a program about rewilding and it really brought home how quickly things can turn around for the good.
Btw veganuary has some cracking recipes if you are cutting down meat. My favourite is the chocolate flapjack!

Diseases often mutate from animals to humans, and can spread in a variety of ways, not just through consumption (bubonic plague, West Nile, Ebola), so not eating meat is a pointless endeavor if you're doing it to not catch the next plague.

That's true zoonotic diseases can have other sources. But the concern is that modern farming and slaughter methods are good breeding grounds for disease and so zoonotic diseases have become more prevalent. Nipah for example started in pig farms in our lifetime. The not eating meat aspect is to try and reduce the demand for meat hence less animals are kept in crowded conditions and so risk is brought down. No one believes animals carry covid in their meat.

And as far as I'm aware the source of ebola is theorised to be either consuming animals or encroaching on their natural territory (usually for farmed animals)

YABU to only have started giving a shit.

In Sapiens, the writer says our treatment of animals is the greatest crime ever committed by humanity

Myself I haven't 'only just started giving a shit'. Vegetarian since I was 6. But I also realize people have to start somewhere.
Yes, I've read sapiens it's a good read.

Definitely read Sapiens it's brilliant. X

Homo Deus next. When it's on deal in kindle that is.

I became vegetarian about a year and half ago for this reason. I tried veganism for a few months but found that much harder in terms of eating outside my house- most of my choices seemed to be jacket potato and beans or something very processed, and black tea.

But being vegetarian is amazingly easy. I really don't miss meat at all. I do think it will be the future either out of choice or necessity.

I keep saying to DH, I can't believe Brexit negotiations are hung up on the fishing industry. It's an industry which a lot of Brits feel emotional about, but ultimately is becoming obsolete.

I think some of the bad health consequences of not being a healthy vegetarian can outweigh some people eating meat though. Eating meat may be unhealthy in some forms however it can also bring with it a lot of nutrition in a much easier and cheaper form for some people.

The imports required to keep all people vegetarian and not omnivore would probably have to go up as well therefore destroying the planet further, intensive agriculture for fruit and veg and palm oil will inevitably go up as most likely will food prices, where do all the jobs that are involved in meat production go as well.

Add to this the fact that coronavirus as an example will continue to spread via human interaction with even domestic pets and I suppose it probably won't make too much of a difference.

The world is messed up at the moment no doubt about it though.

We already import soya as animal feed. So what would be the difference between importing a much smaller amount comparatively for humans? Meat eaters eat palm oil, rice etc at the same rate as vegetarians and vegans so that's irrelevant. Vegan diets use grain and pulses for protein, not just vegetables. The Oxford study shows a plant based world would be more sustainable than the current model, using foods like this as a basis.
As for health implications, tbh I just find that insulting. Sure, people who eat just salad are unhealthy, but those people have eating disorders as veg based diets are balanced with grains, legumes, vegetables and fruit. Occasionally you'll get an idiot who doesn't feed a 1 year old any solid food and the media jumps all over it saying because they are vegan. It's just stupidity, which transcends diet and lifestyle.

@hennybeans

I became vegetarian about a year and half ago for this reason. I tried veganism for a few months but found that much harder in terms of eating outside my house- most of my choices seemed to be jacket potato and beans or something very processed, and black tea.

But being vegetarian is amazingly easy. I really don't miss meat at all. I do think it will be the future either out of choice or necessity.

I keep saying to DH, I can't believe Brexit negotiations are hung up on the fishing industry. It's an industry which a lot of Brits feel emotional about, but ultimately is becoming obsolete.

I imagine negotiation to be something like this: EU: Obviously you sold a large portion of your fishing rights off years ago, due to the fact you didn't have the infrastructure to maximise profit from the industry. Boris: Me want fish. Fish good. Ugg.

Yes, I agree. Some of the conditions in which animals are kept for consumption are state-sanctioned, disease-ridden, hellholes. It's unbearable to me how we treat them. I believe that their lives mean as much to them as ours do to us. To quote a phrase "there's no humane way to kill someone who doesn't want to die".

If you think stopping eating meat in the U.K. is getting back in touch with nature, then I suspect you’ve never lived and worked with it.

You are absolutely right we need to, and to shop consciously but that isn’t the answer.

No you're right, I don't consider mega farms or even grazing animals nature, rewilding should be a priority. Already can see that the majority of people on this thread shop conscientiously, by not purchasing meat. I don't consider buying organic to be conscientious as it's a middle and upper class privilege. (Grains, legumes etc. Being dirt cheap)

The single biggest thing we humans could do to rectify the damage we’ve done to the planet is stop fucking breeding.

Doubt that will gain popularity on Mumsnet.
My husband and I have just one, so technically haven't even replicated ourselves. Our circle of friends have similar situations.

No. I already live rurally “in nature”
Eat meat, fruit, and vegetables.
I honestly think not eating meat doesn’t make you more in touch with or having a better relationship with nature. Nor will it have any effect on future epidemics/pandemics.

We actually started to eat more meat at the height of lockdown as dried goods that we would use for our vegetarian meals were being panic bought. Any dried and tinned goods that we could get our hands on were donated to the food bank, as we could afford fresh food and meat proteins. As a result of panic buying, we changed where we sourced meat from and we used a butchers that supplies only locally sourced meat and we continued to use them after the supply chain evened out. Since the supply chain evened out, we have gone back to our half meat, half vegetarian meals each week.

Mega farms, as you put it, can actually do a lot for nature and regenerative agriculture. They have the income and security to buy big bits of kit that allow for more environmentally friendly practices such as the move towards min till. A bigger farm is also likely to utilising Countryside Stewardship, more than likely being in higher level stewardship too, and can do more biodiversity centric measures. Smaller farms are those that are unlikely to have resources (money and staff) to invest in improving their environmental practices. Grazing animals also play an important role in organic manures (not necessarily just for organic produce) but realistically, farmers are only going to keep grazing stock if there is a market for them. Inorganic fertiliser production for arable crops is a big part of the carbon emissions in the agriculture industry.

No all future pandemics will bring CK the trend and be avocado driven.

Buck the trend*

I haven’t eaten meat since I was 12. Flirted with veganism lots of the years, longest stretch was about 2 years. I don’t eat much dairy but I am a cheese addict and vegan cheese is rancid.

Megafarms make that profit by increasing cruelty and having unhealthy conditions, which fuel pandemics.
Grazing animals could of course be kept for producing manure without any cruelty if that is a big issue.
Even the WHO say demand for animal protein is the biggest factor in pandemics.
I don't get the point about panic buying, that was obviously because people bought more things that were non perishable. Could have been avoided without a sensationalist media of course.