Control crying with a 2 and a half year old?

[Cruelornot]

Dd has been an awful sleeper since birth, slept through maybe 5 times in her life and the rest of the time has constant wake ups for boob.

I’ve managed to cut out night time boob so she only has it 3 times a day (when she wakes up, nap time and bed time) which is amazing. She still wakes up after a few hours and will only settle if I bring her in with DH and I.

The main problem is getting her to sleep, she will not sleep until 9:30/10 and that’s no matter what time she’s put to bed. She won’t sleep unless I sit outside her room against the wall with the door open. Her room is tiny so I can’t actually sit in there without waking her up when I leave hence the sitting outside the door. Sometimes I’m sitting there for 2 hours! My back is absolutely destroyed. Me and DH take it in turns but it means we get zero time together because one of us is sitting there and then she comes into our bed later on in the night anyway.

Have I missed the boat with Cc? I tried to close her door last night but she sounded so upset I only lasted 32 seconds!!! How pathetic is that?

I’m scared doing this now will traumatise her and also being completely honest I can’t fall asleep without DH there so I do understand that she gets lonely or scared alone.

What can I do?!) please help me!

I don’t think it’s too late, I would decide what your plan is going to be and then make sure you stick to it. She is likely to be upset for a few nights at least, but she knows you’re there, you haven’t abandoned her. I would probably close her door half the way for the first couple of nights and go in after a couple of mins to reassure her, and just keep doing that until she falls asleep. Then on the 3rd night close it all the way. There’s loads of books and blogs etc to choose from to follow for a plan. I definitely don’t think it’s too late though.

Could you not drop the nap and see if that helps?

Does she nap?
My DD is also 2.5 and a similarly awful sleeper overnight, usually wakes once about 10 and will go back and then is usually in with us by 2am. I’d judge myself if I hadn’t lived through it, we do whatever we can to get sleep! I have to get up at 5.30am for work.

She has started falling asleep easily 6.30-7pm though since she dropped her lunchtime name. Any sleep in the day she won’t go down until 9.

Lunchtime nap not name!

She stopped about 4 months ago, would occasionally take a catnap for the first couple of months but now she doesn’t ever fall asleep in the day, whatever we do. She stayed awake though a 3 hour car journey the other day.

I’d be getting rid of the nap or curtailing it to a max time. My eldest has always been a brilliant sleeper but around 21/2 she just wasn’t tired until 9pm when she napped. I wouldn’t be sitting there for 2 hours. I think you might it easier to do a gentler method like gradual withdrawal as if you can only manage 30 seconds of crying, controlled crying isn’t going to be for you.

Omg I could have written this! We have the same child it seems. We have only just night weaned and have got down to the same feeds as you as well. We often have a 2hr bedtime process. It's bloody hard isn't it! I'm just riding it out and hoping for the best. Sorry not to have any constructive advice for you, just wanted you to know you're not in this alone!

She does still nap for about 1 and a half hours from 1pm. I’ve tried dropping the nap but she becomes absolutely hysterical by about 4pm and then won’t eat dinner etc, I wonder if it’s worth persevering with that?

If her door isn’t fully closed and I’m not sitting there she just gets out of bed and walks around. We do have a baby gate not sure if that’s worth a try? Will have to get DH to dig it out of the garage. My goodness I thought this stage was supposed to get easier! Glad I’m not alone though!

We did something similar as bedtime routine was becoming ridiculous

So I sat outside the door, slightly ajar for 5 mins and gradually closed it. If DS cried, I’d open it an absolutely minuscule amount so he was reassured I was still there. Repeat until he no longer noticed door was shut

Eventually after a few nights we got to a point that I could just walk out of the room and he was fine

I used to also stay outside the door for a little while to make sure he didn’t suddenly start crying. One time he tried to open his door so I said through it to get back into bed and he jumped back in!

I think because he thought I was always there behind the shut door he felt better and knew I’d come if he needed me.

The technique for a toddler is called Silent Return, it's a different thing to controlled crying. Once LO can climb out of a cot or is in a bed, controlled crying isn't going to work because the child will just get up when distressed.

(I'm a sleep consultant)

Silent Return involves having a short, very predictable very consistent bedtime routine. Also introduce a sleep time mantra which sets your expectation. (for example "sleep time now, we lie quietly in bed at sleep time. Nan night").

Then end your bedtime routine with mantra, kiss, turn, leave, close door and wait outside the closed door.

Any getting up, silently return to bed, tuck in, say mantra (word for word repetitively, no other speaking), kiss, turn, leave, close door. Wait outside closed door.

And repeat. Over and over and over again.

I’m not sitting there she just gets out of bed and walks around

(Crosses post)

If you hear her get up (while outside of closed door) do the same... go in, silently return to bed, tuck in, say mantra (word for word repetitively, no other speaking), kiss, turn, leave, close door. Wait outside closed door.

And repeat. Over and over and over again.

I do sympathise OP. I had to cut DD's daytime nap. It was painful at first but now she goes all day without a sleep then goes to bed around 7PM.

If she does have a nap I let her have 1/2 hr and that's it.

1.5hrs at her age is way too long in my view.

Have you tried dropping every other day or third day? I hated the transition from 1 nap to 2. It lasted a very long time- maybe a year. Initially I accepted the messing around at night because i liked having a nap with a newborn but it took us a long time to go to properly not needing a nap. I think we did 5 naps in 7 first then every other day then at one point she was just napping at weekends on the sofa. Some days it would be fine and then others you’d get a random 4.30 nap and know you’d be screwed.

If she's not ready to drop the nap, I'd cap it to 30 mins max. So she gets something but not enough to derail her bedtime! This is what we did with our DD as anything longer than that would delay bedtime but she wasn't quite ready to drop it. She did this for about 3-4 months and then stared to gently drop her nap altogether. I agree with PP that the nap is probably not helping bedtime.

In terms of Cc at this age, I can't really comment. We did it much earlier with DD. However I again agree with PP who mention having a plan and consistency! And talking to your DD for a few days ahead about what's going to happen and what you expect from her so it's not a shock to her system.

Definitely try capping the nap to 30mins and then maybe try to drop it every other day if possible. She should go to sleep much more quickly at bedtime which may be easier for you, especially if you don't want to do controlled crying.

DS is 2.5 and he wanted us to sit in his room after bonfire night (hated the fireworks) and would get upset if we didn't. After a few nights of doing it we started to say we were popping downstairs for a drink/to get a jumper etc etc. We would keep going back up to him, extending the time we were leaving him, and after a few nights he fell asleep before we went back in. We also left his door open so he could hear us.

Just going through this myself with my just 3 year old, the 2 hour bedtime ‘delay’ has been going on for 6 months having previously gone to bed ok (after a real battle at 12 months he finally started sleeping with reassuring sshh & slowly us moving out of the door/ closing door etc) Tonight I have consistently put him back in bed starting with our mantra as PP said, then just walking him back each time he got up. No word of a lie, I have been up those stairs 36 times tonight, but he is now lying in his bed quietly.

I would say you have to be mentally ready to follow through as if you don’t stick it out it will be worse next time. When he was 12 months and I returned to work I told myself that I was helping him learn the skill of joining his sleep cycles together as he hadn’t managed that himself naturally.
Re getting DS2 to drop the overnight breast feed, I sent DH in to re-settle him & he stopped waking up in 3-4 days I think.
Good luck, you’re definitely not alone!

She still needs the nap because she’s awake half the night! You need to get tough, make nap minimal and follow the excellent advce on this thread. Don’t delay

God the thought of controlled crying with any child makes me feel sick. My first dd daughter was a horrendous sleeper. We still have to sit in the room until she sleeps but slowly it gets better. Now occasionally I tell her I'm going to clean up and I'll be back, and she falls asleep by herself. She now sleeps 7-7 in her own bed which I NEVER thought would happen. She breast fed and coslept until 2.5 years. It will get better. You'll get there, even if it doesn't seem like it. But yes, keep her busy in the day and drop the nap. I'm assuming you have a bedtime routine and consistent bedtime.

We've had the same problem with out DD, look into the Supernanny toddler night-time routine. It involves backing away slowly until you're out the door ( it's on YouTube)

Thank you guys for all your advice! I’m going to cut her nap down to 30 minutes today and try and get a ton of running around in with it. My MIL lives with us and is over 70 so very scared of covid and gives me a very disappointed look every time I take DD to the park so that’s something I’m going to just have to grin and bear 🥲 I will update either with success or looking for sympathy!

Elizabeth Pantley has a No Cry Sleep Solution book for toddlers. It’s really good. I agree with the dropping maps every few days as well. That helped us

Look up the Ferber method. It really does work and it's for very short periods of time

@binkyblinky Agreed! Ferber method was the easiest for us to manage and worked a treat every time we needed to retrain after teething or illness.

We did the things listed under ‘rehearsals’ and ‘excuse me’ in this link and it was very helpful:
www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/sleep/issues/how-to-sleep-train-toddlers-and-big-kids/

@moita @Tiquismiquis and everyone else who said to drop the nap.. we skipped nap time today bar about 10 mins in the car at about noon. SHE IS ASLEEP NOW!!!! 🥲🥲🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Thank you guys so so so much!!!!!

I sympathise totally with you we had the same had to drop all naps by age 2 and if he did I'd off it was half an hour max brought bedtime forward for a while you have to persevere though at least for a week good luck try and do it if you are on annual leave or when your partner is off so you have support during the day for grumpy childness