Awaiting ADHD assessment. Worried about teacher contribution.

[despondentatwork]

My almost 7yo son displays a lot of ADHD possible ASD behaviours at home/in various family settings. I've always felt there's been an issue, his behaviour has been different to any of his many siblings or cousins. My issue is that don't think his teacher will agree. He's not a problematic child & he's super bright. I l know there are two or three other boys who are more obviously concerning, and whilst I do feel they know he's different, they're more likely to see it as 'eccentricity'. How do I get around this? I know that the behaviour needs to be obvious in more than the home setting for diagnosis. Yet, it's often missed at school until kids are older & therefore intervention is delayed. It's not uncommon.

I've voted YABU because a good teacher/ school will notice regardless of behaviour & academic ability. Have you seen a doc? That's the first step. Then the school will be given a questionnaire to complete.

We can only report on what we see in the school setting. I would certainly say that parents have reported x,y and a at home, we have seen a,b and c and some of y but haven't seen evidence of x and y. There may well be reasons for this though, many children with ASD can " hold things together " with the routines of school but have complete meltdowns as soon as they leave the premises, including one I know who is a COMPLETELY different child at home. But that doesn't mean I don't believe the parents, just that he presents differently in different situations. There are still ASD traits at school, just different ones. It is the whole picture that determines the diagnosis.

Although different circumstances I came to believe my DD had sensory issues...it took lots of phone calls to the GP (due to lockdown) and being referred to several wrong places (including a health visitor telling me babies born in that month tend to be stubborn) before the GP referred me to the right place. I had to provide information for their assessment which included assessments by the school. What the school provided did not add any weight to my argument as she doesn’t show a lot of it in school. I was so worried ahead of my initial phone call with referral in case they read the school reports and just said there was no issue, but actually they were fantastic, agreed with me that there is an issue based on what I had provided and we are now in the system and on the right track to hopefully be seen. This was because it was their profession and they know every little indicator.

Try talking to the SEN at the school and see if they are helpful, but my SEN told me it was quicker to get referred through the GP. Also if you get to the position where you need assessments by the school I took those same assessments they provided and completed my own copies from my own perspective and the lady I talked to told me it was really useful.
It takes a while but if you feel you want your child assessed push and keep pushing x

I should also add that I didn’t begrudge what the school put, I just knew that her issues were on the whole not seen at school,l because she holds it together there and just seems quiet, especially being a girl as they apparently can hide issues like hers better at a young age (she would never want to do anything in a school settinn that could get her told off).

We were in a similar position and when the forms were done, the same issues were there at school, but less obviously. It also helped that at the assessment DC was a year ahead on speech and language but only just reaching expected levels in class. Did you notice the behaviours when home educating during lockdown earlier this year? That was the key bit for us. You can't change what the teachers write, so focus on the forms you need to fill in.

Definitely talk to the Senco. We worried about this, as although DS exhibited the same behaviours at school as at home, his teacher at the time was unbelievable laid back and didn't think it was an issue, despite us really struggling at home and DS falling further and further behind. The teacher also had forgotten that DS was a year group below where he should have been as we delayed his school entry and was therefore associating his behaviours with a much younger child.

The initial assessment from the school was done by the teacher in the previous year as it was just before the summer holidays. By the time the appointment came round the consultant wanted a new teacher assessment by the then current, laid back teacher. According to the new teacher there was no evidence of what the previous teacher had seen, which the senco confirmed as nonsense. A child doesn't change that much in six weeks. In the end the senco insisted on sitting with the laid back teacher and completing the assessment with him to ensure that DS got the diagnosis he needed.

YANBU, not all teachers will recognise signs of ADHD and ASD. A good teacher will, but not all.

DS1's teachers kept telling us he couldn't possibly have ADHD because he wasn't like ADHD kids they'd had before/he could stay in a chair

However when they filled in the questionnaire they rated him as worse on several aspects than we did. Teachers are not necessarily trained in every presentation of ADHD, but that's OK - they just need to fill in the form, and the professional who is trained will assess it.

@spanieleyes as a parent of a kid with autism and adhd, battled previous schools for support and having teachers say there's nothing wrong with him (from P1- P3) thank you for learning, understanding and knowing what you know about these conditions.

It's refreshing to see someone who knows this because of all the teaching staff I've spoken to over the years apart from his current ones, they don't seem to know what you've said. It's teachers like you that really help with the assessment process and getting the diagnosis to allow our kids to access support in school.

I'm a primary teacher and have completed many reports for these assessments. We can only write what we have experience of in school. It doesn't mean your DC won't be diagnosed with anything as some children can mask at school. The assessment will take your home experiences into account. I had a pupil last year whose behaviour was perfect at school but I could see how she behaves at pick-up and drop-off times and included this information in my report. She was given a diagnosis of ADHD based on the paediatrician's observations and information from parents.

I worried about this when DS1 was diagnosed a few months ago (he's 8).

His teacher and I gave him exactly the same score, completely independently if each other

I've been the teacher in this situation and just put what I saw. I spoke to parents and said what I would put and just pointed out that the child presented differently in school. Referral went ahead and people came to see him at school and home etc. I wouldn't worry.

But the form is just a Y/N questionnaire so if there are differences at school, then many of those will be Y.

Our teacher was the opposite - was convinced DS had autism too. However the questionnaire put paid to that one because there were too many Ns.

We had 4 different questionnaires for 4 different conditions, we weren't sure what each one was for. The first 3 had loads of Ns and we were like WTF? But then we started on the last one and it was Y-Y-Y-Y....! That was the Adhd one.

So trust in the questionaires.

Does he have meltdowns in school? DS is academically extremely bright, with an eidetic memory, however was having 6 meltdowns a day so it couldn't be denied that despite this there was a definite issue.

We got an autism diagnosis without school confirming any problems. The only thing they noticed, but upon being asked was that DD didn’t like change. But again ‘no problems’ came from it.
What they didn’t see was her behaviour at home.
DD has inflexible thinking which means she wholeheartedly believes in and follows ‘rules’. Therefore no bad behaviour at school because that was ‘against the rules’. But upon coming home, her safe place, all her confusion and emotion from the day would come out and we had (well we still have) daily meltdowns while she processes the day.
I can only advise you have a good diary of home life so they don’t need ‘school’ to back it up.

I can only tell you my experience which was that we were refused a diagnosis of ADHD based on schools contribution. I’m still angry about the whole thing and we are currently awaiting a second opinion. Meanwhile I have a child with zero impulse control and no support.

The questionnaires they fill in often have statements with a 4/5 point rating scale. They sprinkle the anxiety/OCD/depression/ADHD/ASD questions throughout and there are often questions that look at the same thing from a different angle. Additionally, some of the questions are indicative of the disorder if you agree, and others if you disagree.

So, while you could 'throw' the questionnaire if you know what to look for, most teachers will just fill in what they see.

I had a social work visit to DD1's classroom when she was about 6 and the SW said "I watched her and I wondered why she was even there...." It's a special school, and some of the children had ADHD to the point where they would literally climb the walls. All his comments showed was that he was inexperienced with SN.

Don't worry. DD2 is the most unassuming, quiet, compliant child in the world at school. Practically mute, would do anything not to stand out. She got her ASD diagnosis with flying colours. Children don't have to cause problems to be diagnosed.

(DD2 goes to mainstream and DD1 goes to special school).

Similar situation here. My dd was in y3 and I had concerns. Following assesment by senco she was referred. Both I and her y4 (moved up by then) teacher did the forms. Mine marked her higher tha teachers and meant she didn't get referred. I knew it was most likely borderline anyway so wasn't big surprise. However what became clear was that her y3 teacher had a much more 'relaxed' teaching style they were 'fun' teacher. While I thought this suited my dd personality wise actually it was the worst thing for her. Her y4 teacher was much more structured organised write stuff down and so she was far better in class.

So things can change.

@catnoir1
I think it helps , as a SENCO, that I have a child with ASD. Although every child is different, some day to day experience is valuable. I also trust parents, there are very, very few who "imagine" or exaggerate conditions in their child, most just want someone to listen and help. That's my job.

You will get the same:similar forms home too op and the teacher can just put what she sees
Or she can do what my sons teacher did and only fill in the bits she wanted to leave massive bits out and contradict herself so schools opinion is basically a waste of time as the nurse could do little with what she’d been sent as it wasn’t finished so couldn’t be scored and she’d written he is achieving at a good level then said he wasn’t separately so what can anyone do. Such a waste of time really. She’s taking my sat and paeds opinion etc on board too though also he sees other from mdi team so until he can be assessed f2f I’m mot sure what it’ll happen we’d already waited 2 years to get to this point.

As a teacher, I think it's worth saying that a lot of us only have knowledge based on DC we have taught and any reading we may have done in our own time. I got a couple of hours total on SEN when I was training and it didn't cover ADHD. Luckily I work with an excellent SENCO now (private school though which attracts significant numbers of DC with SEN) but it is very hit and miss. In summary, if you have carefully observed your own child and researched, don't take a teacher's word for it that there's no issue.

@RitaEllen so sorry to hear about this. That's awful.

There is currently a government funded programme running for the next 5 years that will implement a toolkit in primary schools across the UK for adhd. It allows teacher to support kids with the condition and shows them what to look for when questions are raised about a child.

I hope you're able to keep pushing to get support for your child. It's so hard for them and it's hard for parents to watch this happening and feel powerless. Very frustrating situation, I've been there.

Is private an option? All LAs will accept a private diagnosis.

@Phineyj this is part of the problem - if you've met one child with adhd, you've met one child with adhd. They're all so different. For example, not everyone who has the hyperactivity component is bouncing off the walls. Hyperactivity can be speed reading, excessive talking, out of their seat a lot, fidgeting with anything.

Do you feel there should be more information about adhd for teachers?

@ZigZaggyZoo

I've voted YABU because a good teacher/ school will notice regardless of behaviour & academic ability. Have you seen a doc? That's the first step. Then the school will be given a questionnaire to complete.

I don't think that's true at all (unless you have a much higher bar for what's considered a good teacher). I know of at least two children who have been diagnosed (one with ADHD and one with dyslexia) despite their respective teachers being adament that this was parent lead and they had absolutely no concerns. The teachers were both perfectly good in other ways (my DC have been taught by them).

There are three different types of ADHD so your child does not need to be obviously bouncing off of the ceiling to be diagnosed. The Paediatrician should provide the school and Home with a Connors test to fill in. The Connor test results allow for bias in favour of the parental viewpoint therefore recognising that school and home will see things differently. If your son is able he should also be involved in the assessment and can describe his feelings. If he can't concentrate and struggles with his behaviour he should tell the doctor exactly how it presents and what it means for him and the doctor should be noting this. It is also helpful for the doctor if the school write a letter which tells what they see but also admits that it is possible that your son behaves differently at home and they have no reason to disagree with what you the parent are saying occurs.

Sounds like you are wanting a specific diagnosis, rather than wanting an assessment.