Jodie Turner-Smith as Anne Boleyn

[Bitchysideisouttoplay]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9071763/Director-TV-drama-Anne-Boleyn-says-best-person-role.html#article-9071763
Not and AIBU really but what does everyone think if this?
Personally I think if you are making a historical drama/film etc surely you should cast a person as close in looks to the historical figure.
Before anyone says I'm.being racist I'm not I had massive issues with the casting in the Tudors due to Johnathan Rhys Meyers being cast as Henry, he is short, not ginger and really does not look anything like Henry in portraits 🙄🙄

A an antidote to your Tudor woes, there is a Christmas treat awaiting you all.

I adore Georgette Heyer's novels, they are a go to comfort read. I haven't read Julia Quinn's Bridgerton but may do if this is as good as it looks.

I am sure there will be an outcry about the diversity in casting. There always is when convention is challenged.

This is my ideal Christmas TV, it looks sumptuous and the clothes are so interesting.I will be more than happy to settle down with Cherry liqueur chocolates and a port and lemon for a little escapism on Christmas Day.
🎄🍷🍫🍒🎄

Theatres have been doing colour-blind casting for 30 years. You only notice for the first couple of minutes.

Anne Boleyn isn’t back, it’s woke pandering and I can’t be bothered with it.

I agree, OP.

I can understand why colour blind casting happens, but I really don’t think it’s right in period/historical programmes. It seems to be all about making the audience feel good about themselves, and not actually depicting something even vaguely realistic.

The great BBC period dramas of the 1990s would never be made now, and what a shame that is.

It’s not historically accurate to depict scores of people who wouldn’t have been present at a given historical moment. It actually ignores the massive racism that existed at that time, and patronises the viewer.

I think they’ve probably done it to boost ratings by causing controversy anyway.

@Bitchysideisouttoplay

Actually I hate to burst your bubble *@PicsInRed* I would love to see dramas and historical shows about black communities is the 17 and 1800's and also when people for Asia started to migrate over here and lived in the port communities. The reason I posted about this "issue" is I was scrolling through the daily mail and saw this article and thought it would be good to see other opinions outside of my family/friends/collugues .

Why does it have to be a specific film or series specifically about that Black or Asian community? Why can't different races be integrated into any historical films, in the general characters to the script, rather than specialised "race" characters - as they were in society at that time?

Segregation and theories around the fundamentality of race came later - so our all White "historical" dramas are as historically accurate as one with shiny flat pressed hair and kohl eyeshadow. They're pastiche and made purely for people of our age to feel comfortable viewing.

Honestly who cares if the actor doesn’t look exactly like the historical figure they’re based on?

😅 I’d say she looks very different from the historical figure to put it lightly.

And it’s so unnecessary.

If we want to be inclusive, maybe the BBC could commission a story of royal intrigue not set in the UK for once? Or do the same story but with a different setting?

The excellent Japanese film Throne of Blood is basically MacBeth in a traditional Japanese setting. Why couldn’t they have done something like that, with a full cast of black actors?

@Fluffycloudland77

How about we recast Othello as a white bloke?.

Things ought to be accurate, it’s really hard to watch historical things anyway because they alter events to suit their timeline.

Anne Boleyn was a flat chested brunette as far as we know with a curvy older sister who put it about a LOT.

In fairness, Othello has been a white bloke in most productions until very recently when people finally realised that blacking up instead of employing a black actor was a shitty thing to do.

I'd like to see the Shardlake stories filmed. With somebody who really has visible physical disabilities, instead of an abled bodied person cripping up.

[quote CrotchBurn]@Bitchysideisouttoplay
They should do a series set in the pirating age. When was that? 16th century? I'd watch that, we haven't had one of those. Could be really epic. Also the highwayman age (think it might be same era?).

But its always either Tudors, Jane Austen era or Downton Abbey era. So dull.[/quote]
Ooh like both of your suggestions!

I'm a bit surprised at this, because I thought colour blind casting was very popular about ten years ago but was a bit out of date now. For example, Gwen/Guinevere in Merlin was black but in a series with talking dragons and shiny satin costumes I wasn't exactly expecting realism so worked perfectly well.

There are going to be lots of examples when race can be changed - e.g. Will in His Dark Materials - I don't believe he was written as black in the books but it doesn't actually make any difference to his characterisation in the TV adaptation. However in other cases, where you are aiming for historical accuracy in all other aspects (to some extent, e.g. Tudors probably wouldn't have been talking in RP english as they always are!) it is a bit disorientating to ignore what would be a key factor of that person's identity.

Doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't have more variety in casting - but I would prefer creators to think outside the box and create dramas where it is realistic to have a mixed ethnicity cast (plus more variety in sexuality, disability, etc) - like you say, piracy, or ancient rome, or fantasy, or modern dramas...

As Picsinred said, there obviously were non white people in the UK from at least roman times if not before and TV/films showing this could be both interesting and authentic - but surely this would have to acknowledge their identity (like the film Dido for example) rather than 'whitewashing' (for lack of a better word) over it and pretending it isn't relevant?

’Theatres have been doing colour-blind casting for 30 years.’

This ^

The worst recent miscast is the actress in the Agatha Raisin series. Tall and blond and the real Agatha was short and stocky with dark hair. Ruined it for me completely. Don't watch.

@PicsInRed

Given there were whole communities of Black people in England and Wales in the 17 and 1800s - who assimilated into what we now see as White English and Welsh society - perhaps the OP would also be keen to see more representative casting there, too?

No? Just this one "issue"? Ok.

I would flipping love to see a new interesting drama exactly about one of these communities.

That could actually be a really interesting take on the whole thing.

There is enough interesting and unexplored female historical figures I would much rather see.
And there are far more interesting historical figures for black people to play than Anne Boleyn, but they don’t want to make those dramas, they want to bring out the black actress playing AB, court the publicity, bask in their self appointed glory as some sort of progressive and fuck the actually impact it has on the rest of society.

Why does it have to be a specific film or series specifically about that Black or Asian community? Why can't different races be integrated into any historical films, in the general characters to the script, rather than specialised "race" characters - as they were in society at that time?

When I see a fictional drama set in Tang-era China, I really, really would be cross to see white characters just for diversity’s sake. Even if they play fast and loose some of the historical details (which they always do), race is one that even a three-year-old could point out. Everyone knows there weren’t white Europeans in ancient China. It’s like having Robin Hood visiting a Starbucks!

The one time I saw that in a Chinese drama was this stupid show about a lost Roman legion in China. Supposedly based on a local legend so there’s that at least.

@AuntyPasta

’Theatres have been doing colour-blind casting for 30 years.’

This ^

Yep, my thoughts too.

I agree it'd be good to see more diversity in the historical periods/stories we get, but a PP who says we get the Tudors because people watch the Tudors is right.

And there are far more interesting historical figures for black people to play than Anne Boleyn, but they don’t want to make those dramas, they want to bring out the black actress playing AB, court the publicity, bask in their self appointed glory as some sort of progressive and fuck the actually impact it has on the rest of society

Well said.

Theatres have been doing colour-blind casting for 30 years.

Only the privileged can afford to be colour-blind

Everyone knows there weren’t white Europeans in ancient China.

There were all races of traders along the silk road.

As long as she’s good in the part, who cares?

Actors are pretending, fgs, not impersonating someone.

I'd also love to see about a drama about the court of the Ottoman empire. It was genuinely very diverse, with people from the middle east, Africa, Mediterranean and eastern European. The harem of women all locked up together means that you could have some interesting lesbian romances which very likely did really happen. Also there were women who rose from being kidnapped sex slaves to being queens.

I agree with the PP about using more influences for drama than just the Tudors/ Queen Vic. There are so many interesting sources of folklore, historical perspective and human interest than just British rulers from ages ago.

I also think that a fictional character (whose race is not key to their part e.g. not a Klansman) should be open to the best actor for the part, even if they are a very well known character such as Ebenezer Scrooge.

However, for a real character, certain things about the actor's physicality will tell parts of their story, so Anne Boleyn would not have married Henry VIII had she not been quite a young woman at the time. Therefore unless it was an experimental/ non naturalistic piece, it wouldn't make sense to cast a man or small girl.

In terms of race (and I know not everyone's race can be distinguished just by looking at them), If Anne Boleyn was black, it would infer a different history, heritage and story to the one we know about and I'm sure is well recorded.

So i don't agree that it's just about not looking much like Anne Boleyn and that not meaning anything. I very much see the reasoning behind casting an actor who is attractive by today's standards as Henry VIII as presumably he had something going for him back then!

As much as I agree BAME actors should have equal access to work and good parts, I feel that in a historical/ biographical piece, we should recognise that personal characteristics play a part.

For instance (and I'm not suggesting that white actors face the same difficulties in getting parts), I don't think anyone would argue that in a straight drama/ bio of say, Michelle Obama, the lead role should go to anything other than a black actress. Why? because race isn't meaningless. I feel we need to try and achieve parity, not erasure.

Obviously this is no comment on Jodie TS's abilities. I haven't seen any of her work but have no doubt that she is very talented to get the part.

@PicsInRed

Everyone knows there weren’t white Europeans in ancient China.

There were all races of traders along the silk road.

I said Europeans. Arab traders certainly went, and Central Asians. But Marco Polo was later, and may have not even made it.

@CrotchBurn

How come asian actors never get a look in when it comes to boosting diversity?

The fact this comment has been ignored says it all.

I have actor friends who are of Asian and SE Asian origin and there is beginning to be some grumbling about only one race being boosted in the name of "diversity".

It's not diverse at all.

I don’t think every single adaptation has to be perfectly historically accurate. If it matters to you that Anne Boleyn be played by a white woman, there are countless programmes for you to choose from. For those of us who don’t care about the race of the actress, or actively enjoy historical reimagining, there is this. There is room for both.

I agree with the suggestion of a dramatisation about Mary Seacole. I am getting a bit tired of too many dramas about Tudor times.

I would never want a white man to play the part of Nelson Mandela, so agree Anne Boleyn should be a white woman.

@OppsUpsSide

Theatres have been doing colour-blind casting for 30 years.

Only the privileged can afford to be colour-blind

Why is that, exactly?

Does it cost you a lot of money to watch a black actress play Anne Boleyn?