To think DM can still come for Xmas?

[Elfinghecking]

We’re in tier 2, DM in equivalent tier.
DM lives alone, has been shielding for the last 2 weeks to ensure not getting anything that would prevent Xmas visit. Lives in an area that has low COVID and no restrictions on her leaving to come here - it’s a flight though becuase of distance.
We heard the news and were heartbroken as it meant she and DB/SIL couldn’t come as planned - not seen them in months.

We thought about getting only DM over Xmas Eve ( late) and having her leave first thing Boxing Day as no flights on Xmas Day. The regs said overnight only if unavoidable. DP isn’t sure we should though - thought that might be rule breaking.

But then a friend said can’t you just form a support bubble with DM and she can come as already planned for 5 days and looking at guidance, I think we can. We’re already her ‘support’ as it were from a distance, ringing every day, sorting deliveries etc. She’s fit, healthy and only in 60s.
Her mental health has been poor the most months, really struggling being alone and normally we’d see her every other month with the grand kids.
So YANBU - have her over, YABU - that would be illegal.

Re airports - and other people
Might find this useful - Gatwick is tier 2 and unaffected. Heathrow is tier 4 but people from 1,2,3 can transit through it. I.e. use the airport as long as they don’t go to stay in London. It’s only tier 4 residents who can’t travel via the airports except for ‘exceptional’ reasons like work, compassionate grounds etc

Just checked, Gatwick is tier 2 so if she can manage the travel then it should be ok

She’s 63 and in great health. No issues around vulnerable health or she wouldn’t be travelling in the first place I think.

Why can't she go to db/sil and bubble up with them, and thus avoid the flight where risk is huge?

@Elfinghecking

Am honesty weighing up the cons against her ever deteriorating mental health. She sobbed and sobbed when I told her about the new regs yesterday when we thought that there was no way she could come see us.

I am a stickler for rules and commend you checking and checking again - but just get her on a plane to you.

We also have a split bubble situation - my Dad needs help as he can't move around much at all due to severe copd and heart failure. So he needs meals prepared, etc. He lives with my brother but he works during the day so I go to my dad every lunchtime to get his lunch and pills, etc. Luckily Christmas Day my brother is home so instead of them coming to us for the day they'll spend it there. But I'll need to go Boxing Day. Similar with my mum. She is housebound but a neighbour calls in every day and gets her milk etc. I go a couple of times a week as she's not local and do her main shopping and housework. She'll be coming to us on Christmas Day as she's in our support bubble. Not all situations are black and white.

I would have her come for the 5 days.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

I really do sympathise, but I think the sticking point is going to be flying into a London airport. Is there no other way she could travel that avoids going into a tier 4 (train maybe)?

Gatwick is in West Sussex which is in Tier 2

She has been on flights here and back as have I and personally I don’t think the risk is huge. The restrictions at the airport, distancing, mask wearing, hand san, no food or drink served etc. Made me feel the safest anywhere I’ve been since March. It’s a very short flight - an hour. I felt safer on the that flight than going to the supermarket.

But that’s just my opinion.

I'd let her come for what was originally planned, as a support bubble. Sounds pretty low risk to me, especially if you were picking her up from airport etc?

She lives on her own so is allowed by law to form a support bubble with you and come and stay overnight with you. Support bubbles are allowed to continue even if you live in tier 4.

So go ahead and have a lovely time.

@AlwaysLatte

We also have a split bubble situation - my Dad needs help as he can't move around much at all due to severe copd and heart failure. So he needs meals prepared, etc. He lives with my brother but he works during the day so I go to my dad every lunchtime to get his lunch and pills, etc. Luckily Christmas Day my brother is home so instead of them coming to us for the day they'll spend it there. But I'll need to go Boxing Day. Similar with my mum. She is housebound but a neighbour calls in every day and gets her milk etc. I go a couple of times a week as she's not local and do her main shopping and housework. She'll be coming to us on Christmas Day as she's in our support bubble. Not all situations are black and white.

Always, just to say that I think what you've outlined there is completely within the rules. Certainly in Scotland, providing unpaid care (which is what you are describing) has been allowed throughout. Your Mum is also in a support bubble (with you) due to being a single person household. for you, caring can be hard.

The shielding would surely have been pointless if she’s going to sit on a plane with hundreds of other people.

You can travel into Tier 4 from a Tier 1,2,3 area to see your support bubble. Gatwick and Stansted are Tier 2. Heathrow is Tier 4. But you should check what the airlines are doing. People in Tier 1 and 2 can also still go on holiday to a Tier 1 or 2 area so people can also still use hotels and holiday cottages in these areas (at least until the rules change again!) and then meet their family outdoors in groups of 6 (except for xmas day when you can mix indoors). So your sibling could stay nearby and do that.

‘
The shielding would surely have been pointless if she’s going to sit on a plane with hundreds of other people.’

She did it so as not to catch a cold or a cough or anything that would have meant having to get a test, wait on results etc. As did we. Not because she needed to for health reasons. In reality she’s barely been out at all since the first lockdown anyway, now WFH etc.

There won’t be hundreds of people on the plane, if that makes a difference. And having take. That flight recently as I said I don’t personally feel it’s and more unsafe than other public transport or public area.
But, that’s for DM to decide. My question was really around COULD she come over, and thanks lovely people for answering that.

If she’s in a low risk area, why would she want to travel by plane to a high risk area, stay there with you for several days, then travel back by plane to her low risk area ?

You say she has been SI for 2 weeks but you don’t say that you have been doing so. I’d have thought that you are at risk of giving covid to her then her taking it back to her low risk area.

If she’s in a low risk area, she will be allowed to spend Christmas Day with another household near her home, in her low risk area. That might be your sister and BIL who seem to live near her and who are her bubble ( if they actually see her face to face ).

Phoning people and sending them deliveries don’t make them in your bubble. I’m not saying it’s not supportive , just it doesn't make a bubble.

If your DM is already in support bubble with anyone else then that would be breaking rules. If she has not got any other support local to where she lives then I think it is allowed.

Taking a flight is a huge risk though.

Legally it’s fine

I have some concerns about what they’ll do to transport though

If she gets stuck at yours, is there an alternative route back?

“Shielding is useless if she’s then going to be getting on a plane” - no it’s not!! It’s still seeing fewer people and the fewer people the lower the risk 🤷‍♀️. Let her come to you op.

‘ f she gets stuck at yours, is there an alternative route back?’

Yes, driving and ferry. But even at the height of the first lockdown it was still possible to fly in the U.K. between major cities so not expecting this to be different. And no, she’s not from Scotland. But even then she could still make the ‘necessary’ journey to get home for work etc.
We are in the same ‘tier’ level.

@Elfinghecking

‘ f she gets stuck at yours, is there an alternative route back?’

Yes, driving and ferry. But even at the height of the first lockdown it was still possible to fly in the U.K. between major cities so not expecting this to be different. And no, she’s not from Scotland. But even then she could still make the ‘necessary’ journey to get home for work etc.
We are in the same ‘tier’ level.

Okay. It’s all good then.

I hope you enjoy the time together