To not pay the people fitting our kitchen the money we agreed because the work is extremly poor?

[ledodgy]

It's a bit akward as one of the blokes is a friend/ex colleague of dp's sister and they did her kitchen not perfectly but it looked good they worked hard and they're cheap so she asked if they'd do ours.

It is a cash in hand Job which they quoted us £450 to fit our small kitchen, skim the walls and tile the bit that needed tiling. Now we didn't expect perfection but they said they'd get most of it done in a weekend and it is still nowhere near completed. The walls they are supposed to have skimmed are terrible really rough, patchy in fact in one part they have painted directly over cement without even plastering over the top. The tiles are not flat or straight. They also measured the bottom plinths whilst they were still in their packaging and thus did not tile further enough down so there is a 4 cm gap between where the worktop ends and the tiles begin and we've had to spend £30 buying oak coving to stick over this. The worst thing is is they have left live wires exposed only wrapping the edges slightly with insulation tape but not the ends. They took the light socket off to paint on Saturday but left it hanging off until now and we can't find the screws. Last night they put all the wall cupboards up but after they'd gone dp had to change most of the hinges and realised they had only clipped the hinges onto the door and hadn't screwed each one in.

Dp has had enough he doesn't want them to touch the cooker and Microwave which need putting into a cabinet which again is badly put together and wrongly attached and as DP said if they f*ck that up it's £1000 worth of equipment down the drain. Plus he'd already stopped them from putting the wiring for the hob in the wrong way round.

Dp intended to ring him up today and ask them to get their stuff and tell them we'd finish off and to call it £300 which we thought was fair considering it will cost the difference to get a plasterer in to rectify what they've done and also because the job isn't going to be completed by them. Anyway he rang me up this morning before he had spoke to dp so I had to tell him and he wasn't happy saying £300 was too low it had cost them £80 in materials etc etc.To which I replied that their work was sub standard etc etc. He said they had skimmed the walls but they are in a worse condition than before they touched them, friends have seen them since and can't believe they think it's acceptable, not to mention that on one of the walls they have supposedly skimmed and painted they have after painting them used pollyfiller or something by the side of the window and there's blobs of that all over the wall!

Anyway they are coming round at 6.30 so we can discuss it. Now dp and I are willing to go upto £350 which we think is more than reasonable. What do you reckon?

it is a case of you get what you pay for..don't forget wiring now comes under the building regs too so has to be done by a qualified certified electrician

Yeah I understand you get what you pay for and as I said we didn't expect it to be perfect but I could have plastered better than them and i've never plastered before! You expect them actually be able to do a job even if it's not wondeful but passable iyswim. I'd also expect them to know that you shouldn't paint directly onto newly laid plaster but to use a primer or cheap emulsion first because the paint just gets absorbed in the plaster but they didn't do this either.

It's not like we just got them in off the street as they were recommended by dp's sister but I think they've taken too many jobs on at once and are rushing ours. Dp is a qualified electronic engineer so made sure he supervised the wiring that they did do but even he expected them to realise you don't leave live wires on show especially as it was more dangerous for them than anybody else as they were working by them.

i would say if they want to continue and finish the job to an agreed and acepable standard then you can pay them the whole mount, but if you are going to have to pay someone else to rectify the mistakes they made then take that out of the money you will be giving them

Basically it's worse because they are friends of dp's sister they came round said they could skim , plaster etc and gave us a quote based on this. If they'd had come round and said 'look plastering isn't our strong point so maybe you should get someone else to do that' it would have been better especially as they know dp's sister iyswim. If I were them i'd be really embarrassed by the standard of work they've donehonetsly you should see it no one could actually claim that it was even an ok job.

Woopsadaisy, I wouldn't mind doing that tbh but dp doesn't actually think they are capable of doing it to an acceptable standard as they seem to think what they have done is acceptable and I also have my doubts but i'm anything for an easy life lol.

Friends of mine just had their bathroom done and wasnt happy with it, they made the tilers, plasterers etc re-do it all to a standard that they thought acceptable and paid them the full amount. They are now happy with the bathroom, think you need to give them a chance to put it right first.

I think we would let them do that if there wasn't a cooker and microwave involved the safety aspect is extremly worrying.

mm hard one as they are doing it at an extremely cheap price..however I also agree that they should have some standard to it.
I would suggest they either rectify or wait until you get seperate plasters quote and can take that amount from their original amount.

BTW I know a super plasterer who is a lovely bloke to boot.

I may take you up on that Nemo. The thing is that is the price they quoted us if they had said we'll charge you £450 for a shit job we would have said no but they said they could do everything we wanted them to for that amount so we assumed that meant they could do the jobs they said they could do. The resulting work proves they can't in fact do these jobs.

No Issy it's not lol.

It's not just the money that's the problem. It really isn't possible to completely fit a kitchen, plaster and tile in a weekend. It was cheap because they were inevitably going to cut corners. Sorry. And there aren't that many builder who are true jack of all trades - DH is a carpenter and meticulous (and bloody slow ) but wouldn't attempt plastering or electrics.

No. You wouldn't be reasonable to withhold money unless you are going to let them finish the job properly. To be fair it's very hard to properly price a job privately. Sounds like they did it very wrong and realised too late - hence the poor work.

Anything in writing ? Might enable you to make a deduction if the electrical work is separated out and you decide to have someone else do it. Otherwsie they can charge what they like and the materials on top. Agree they were cheap for a reason.

Hmm we may agree to pay them as arranged as long as they re do the plastering but take money off for the wood we've had to buy due to their measuring mistake and also because they will not be doing the cooker or the microwave dp won't budge on this and I can understand why. The thing is dp doesn't see why we should let them finish the job and pay them the full amount if he's going to have to then re do everything after them like he had to last night he was up until 1 am re-doing the cupboards properly if this is the case he may as well do it himself in the first place.

I see his point but he could have given them a chance to correct the hinges btu chose not to .

Yeah that's true.

If they can't do the work that they have said they can do then they don't deserve to be paid IMO. Just because these guys charged a low price it doesn't mean they can get away with it. Not unless they said 'look, the work will be crap and you'll have to redo it all when we've gone'

DH is a carpenter (and a perfectionist!). He charges what some would consider to be a lot, but he will not leave a job unless he and customer are satisfied with the work. He is currently having to remove and reinstall a kitchen work surface and re-tile (a days work) at his own expense because he made a mistake with it.

This brings to mind the phrase

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!

My DP is a builder and charges £1000 to fit a kitchen and that is considered reasonable. That would likely included plumbing but not electrics. Saying that, he is very particular and would never do substandard work.

Were these guys qualified and registered with the relevant bodies. For isntance, they must be CORGI registered and Part P compliant electricians if they are going to be touching the electrics and plumbing, if not they are breaking the law, even if your DP is an electrical engineer, if he is not registered as part P compliant then he cannot commision this work (even though im sure he is more than capable) its the law.

My DP would withouth question rectify any mistakes or if the client isnt happy.

He does not like to fit kitchens unless he has made them himself to be honest as very often it is a case of making a silk purse from a pigs ear and some clients seem to forget that they have bought an off the shelf budget kitchen from homebase or b&Q and are expecting a kitchen that looks like it came from John Lewis.

My DP is a member of the Federation of master builders, which has a great website for both the trade and the public. I read in a recent magazine about with holding payment, apparently they advise paying up and then taking action afterwards. Because this was a "cash" job, i wouldnt advise that, if you only think the job is worth £350 then only pay that amount, otherwise give them the option to put things right. I would be very wary of builders who can only work weekends. A weekend to fit a kitchen is a big ask, usually takes DP a week, plus you wanted tiling and plastering - that would take it to well over a grand if you had my DP doing the work.

where do you live Lucyellensmum?

Ormiran, what is it with chippies eh?? my DP is a carpenter and he is GOOD, but my god is he slow!!! He does actually do plastering and is really quite good at it, i think if you have a practical and artistic bent then it does carry over to some trades, but the other trades he leaves to the other trades.

I get so cross actually by poor tradesmen as it gives the good guys a bad name. Im not saying my DP never screws up, he does, but if he does, its an honest mistake or cock up in organisation, if he screws up, he makes ammends. He recently kept a client waiting (far too long in my opinion) partly due to cock ups with our suppliers and not entirely his fault, so he gave them a substantial discount.

whys that dooley

It's normal to withhold 5-10% until you are satisfied with the job. Often, however, builders will disappear at the snagging stage and forego the final payment.

scary, that is sad, and fortunately not the case with DP, although i do understand that this does happen. The problem with snagging is that there is little or no money to be had and then the incentive to do the job isnt there. For DP he gets a great deal of satisfaction out of doing a good job and has got many jobs on word of mouth based on that.

Right update. They came round I said I would pay them full price for them to complete the job if they re-plastered the 2 walls they'd made a mess of. He asked how mcuh we'd pay for them to walk now I said £100 less because that's what it would cost to get a plasterer in he said that wasn't true I said i'd had a quote he said ok took the money and said 'it's kama isn't it Emma what goes around comes around' and I can't work out if that was a threat aimed at us or if he's done something shitty to deserve this? Anyway he tried to storm out via the back door and then had to come back sheepishly and ask for the key. I think we were very reasonable and £100 less considering they didn't even finish the job and what they had done had made a mess of was more than they deserved.