To ask if there are any biomedical scientists (or similar) on here?

[bewithmenow]

I am a recent biomed graduate and feel like I'm at a fork in the road in terms of my career. Up until now I had always planned to pursue a career in academia. However, now I am starting to consider whether I should instead pursue a career in biomedicine.

I would love to hear your perspectives on your career and whether you also had to make the academia vs biomed decision and what helped you make that decision.

I think the main reason for my indecision is the lack of job security in academia. I have been applying to PhDs and getting rejections even though I have a first class and distinction, was top of my cohort and have lots of relevant experience, etc. It is making me realise a career in academia will involve a lot more of this kind of rejection and I'm not sure whether that's something I want. I think the pandemic has made me think a lot more realistically and practically about things.

I'm a BioMed graduate, I managed a first but was terrible at lab practicals; something always seemed to go wrong and I found it so frustrating. I considered an MSc in Microbiology but couldn't see myself doing a PhD due to my lack of enthusiasm for lab work, plus couldn't really fund the MSc + living costs (mature student with a mortgage).
I've joined the civil service fast stream instead as a trainee accountant. Very different career, but a good fit for my values, and I get my science fix through podcasts, books and museums instead.

DH is BioMed PhD w 25+ yrs in academia, he is still on one-year contracts, there is v v little in the way of security.

Over that time he has trained dozens of PhD graduates, only a few of which are still in academia, most quit science completely for other more secure jobs. Quite a number did their PhD, postdoc'd for 2-3 yrs and then trained as teachers as they could not break out from postdoc'ing.

Only 2 have made it into full-time academic roles, one of which is now the deputy-head of that area for their entire country.

Probably the best student he ever had did 6 yrs PostDoc and then couldn't find another position so became a grant assessor for a big company in the area instead - she probably earns more money than all the rest expect the deputy-head one.

I'm a biomedical scientist and work in a NHS lab.in order to practice in a hospital lab youhave to complete a registration portfolio with the IBMS once that is complete you can register with HCPC and work in the lab,this takes about 18 months.
You will have to do a lot of shift work, earlies,lates,weekends,nights. Most people start at band 5 and after 3-5 years progress to doing their specialist portfolio which takes about 18mths to complete. This allows you to move onto a band 6 position. For the amount of work you have to put in the pay isn't brilliant tbh.

Clinical scientist here. Look at healthcare scientist training program. You enter as a post grad to the Msc program (it’s funded AND you get band 6 pay while you’re training!)

Thank you so much for your replies. I feel quite overwhelmed as I had always planned to go into academia but I think the pandemic has made me think more practically in terms of job security. I also like the idea of working for one organisation, say the NHS, and working my way up over the years rather than having to move literally all over the country (or world) for an academic position.

I am due to start in an NHS lab at a band 4 position very soon, the pay is just above what an average PhD stipend would be and yet it's work where at the end of my shift I leave it there and can have a good work-life balance. Whereas a PhD would be around the clock and intense. I'm not sure if I want to spend three years of my 20s working like that...

My course isn't IBMS accredited so I would have to pay to get it evaluated but I'm pretty sure it would get approved as I covered all of the required areas from what I can tell.

How does a training portfolio work? Is that something I can ask my manager about when I start or is that only something someone in a particular job role (e.g. a trainee biomedical scientist) with an accredited BMS degree can do?

I really like the look of the healthcare scientist training programme. However I know applications are very competitive but I might apply this round and see.

Biochemist here too, degree and PhD, spent about 5 years in the lab and moved into management. Academia is hard, you need to be successful at everything, write good papers (crap ones don't count), teach, bring money in, support PhD students, everyone is shattered, not achieving, or both

I did bio veterinary sciences so similar and now work in Pharma which is great, love it and run a digital marketing team. Lots of people I work with have science based degrees in the medical affairs area, marketing, clinics development, regulatory or sales.

My niece is in academia, although another field and she really regrets her choice. The competition is fierce and as such, she never researches as she would like to but only to score high and put herself in the best position for her next post, which could be anywhere.

She is tired of moving all the time and now I'm her 30s wants to settle. She has enough of not doing what she really enjoys and she has enough of her more years of competition with all the stress that comes with it and the uncertainty at the end.

It is not at all what she had envisioned it to be.

I know I definitely want to be in a science role. I will see how I find my new job and if I enjoy it I will see what opportunities there are for career progression within the NHS. Money isn't really important to me but three years of a PhD on a minimum stipend compared to three years of working my way up will impact how quickly I am able to buy a house and settle down.

@dontdisturbmenow That was a really useful perspective, thank you. I can imagine myself having the same kind of thoughts as your niece if I pursue academia.

I have a biomedical sciences degree and a phd. Academia is a hard career path, dominated by professors in life long tenure roles. Experience is valued highly by the grant awarding bodies and there is a difficult cycle of success to break into. There are programmes for younger researchers now but many are focuses on entrepreneurship and commercialisation of research, so it depends if that side of things interests you.

I work in an NHS lab. And to become registered as a biomedical scientist you have to either get a trainee position (very competitive) or have a manager who will allow you to do the portfolio in your own time. You have to pay for the portfolio but the price includes having a verifier come to check your work and then you have to give them a tour of the lab. They then award you with a certificate of competence if you meet the requirements and you can register with the HCPC.
At the moment we are completely swamped with other things going on (like testing for COVID) so the trainees in my lab haven’t had the chance to do the things that they need for their portfolios. It takes a lot of work and about 12 months, although I have seen people do it in 9.
There are loads of opportunities for career progression. I read in the latest IBMS newsletter that you can apply to the higher scientific training programme to train as a consultant once you are very experienced and have a masters (colleagues of mine are doing their masters in their spare time as it’s kinda expected for cpd).

I've got a BioMedSci Phd, worked in academia for years, wouldn't recommend it. Now in medical communications - can highly recommend looking into that.

And when it comes to getting the degree evaluated for the IBMS they look at the level of lab practicals in microbiology, haematology, biochemistry, and histology, your degree contained. If you haven’t got the right modules then they require you to pay for top up modules.

Biochemistry undergrad and neuroscience masters here 😊 Doing a lab based phd scared me as you end up with really specific skills that can make it hard to leave academia. I am also pretty slapdash and hate repetitive tasks so wet lab tasks were never going to be my dream haha.

I still loved research though so decided to do a phd in epidemiology (Early life factors that effect brain development in childhood). It was great and now I’ve got loads of transferable skills in coding and stats.

I’m about to start my first postdoc (after working as an RA epidemiologist on covid) and am really excited, but also glad that if I needed to get a job outside academia hopefully I’d be able to.

Also to add - I had a great work life balance during my doctorate as did all my colleagues. We had a lot of medical doctors doing phds in the department and they all said it was like being on holiday

Because it’s purely analytical and you don’t have need to be on site you can pretty much work your own hours. Equally, when something goes wrong it’s just fixing a bug in your code rather than rerunning a whole experiment!

If course isnt ibms accredited there is also clinical scientist route. Working as band 4 will give you a taste if labs are for you. Do you have a specialism?

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/career-planning/study-and-training/graduate-training-opportunities/nhs-scientist-training-programme

Clinical scientists are also in specialities that bio med might not be in such as genetics

My degree is in biomedical sciences, and I work for the NHS now but as a statistician rather than in a lab. I worked my way up through analysis jobs into stats, and my biomedical background has really helped with understanding the data but isn't strictly related to the job. I'm a band 8a and haven't had to do any moving around or short term contracts, so it's fairly comfortable! Just if you wanted some alternative options

What planbea said...

I know that a lot of NHSE jobs need people with a scientific/analytical brain, especially if it's in something like genomics.

There are also public health type jobs as well that are very science-y and things like screening and imms co ordinators need to be able to sift through evidence, write scientific reports, talk about the evidence etc.

Thank you so much for your replies, they have been really helpful. I feel a little out of my depth as I had always been working towards academia.

I think I should be able to get my course accredited as when I compare it to other accredited BMS degrees it's pretty similar. Can I start a training portfolio before my degree is accredited?

My main interest is genetics so the genomics and cancer genomics specialisms on the STP really interest me. I think I may attempt applying to the STP in January just to try. I am not confident in my chances but it is worth an attempt.

I will be working in a virology lab largely doing COVID testing so my experience will be quite limited in this new role but I think I can use it as a stepping stone. Does anyone have any advice on how to make the most of this opportunity and how to seek out opportunities to progress? I know in the interview I was told there were lots of opportunities for career progression but I also know everyone will be very busy.

I did a biomedical science degree, didn't enjoy lab work but did a master's and PhD in epidemiology. I didn't want to be an academic so I wasn't fussed about poor academic job prospects, I enjoyed the MSc and PhD (a PhD doesn't have to be all consuming, I treated mine roughly like a full time job and it was only when it came to writing up at the end I ever worked weekends). Then spent a year or so doing post docs whilst working out where to go next. I now work as an epi at a tech company which I love, we're on the forefront of some really cool stuff and the team spirit and general work pace is much more up my street than I found in academia. And the pay is far better!