To not even want to consider sending DD on a France trip in 2021?

[FlibbityDibbity]

DD will be in Year 6 next year and school are planning to take them away at the start of the year (early Sept) as usual to France. They leave very early Monday morning and return late Friday evening, so five full days away and four nights. The trip was cancelled this year for obvious reasons but plans seem to be going ahead for Sept 2021.

I've always had reservations about her going on this trip, ever since she started at the school. They don't do any overnight trips at all before this one so she's never had the chance to be 'tested'. With the pandemic and Brexit, I'm even more certain that she shouldn't be going.

DD has some additional needs; she manages just fine through the day at school but there are some fairly major developmental delays in terms of continence, sleeping issues, food issues. She is being assessed for autism. She has done the occasional one-night sleepover locally but usually it does not go well and I've had to either collect her late at night or listen to her sobbing on the phone at nearly midnight. I just really, really don't see her being suddenly able to cope with a full working week away, only nine months from now.

AIBU to not even consider sending her? We've always said that we would let her decide. She has a little bit of FOMO (fear of missing out) as her two friends will almost definitely be going and school will put pressure on kids to go. But equally she feels she won't cope. I'm no longer sure if it's a good idea to let her decide as perhaps she's too young and it should just be a parental decision? Then it's not something she has to keep worrying about.

Waiting until nearer the time i.e. putting her name down and seeing if she is more able to cope by the end of summer isn't an option; we need to say yea or nay in the New Year and start paying for it. (It's nearly £500 which is another issue, but not an insurmountable one.) I can't bring myself to fork out such a huge amount of money - we're certainly not rich and can't easily spare it - only for her not to get on the coach on the day and remain at home instead. But I'm absolutely not willing to force her to go if she's not comfortable with it. There is no way for her to return home mid-trip so if she goes, she has to do the whole thing.

Why oh why couldn't they do a one-night residential a bit younger and build up to this? Why couldn't they book somewhere an hour's drive away, so if it gets too much I could collect her? I'm aware there is some parental anxiety here and I shouldn't let that get in the way of her developing independence. But her natural progression in terms of independence is much, much slower than her peers and the thought of her crying herself to sleep every night in another country and trying her best not to let the teachers see that she's struggling is heartbreaking. I fear that rather than helping her on her road to independence, it could do serious damage.

So yeah, I'm thinking I should just declare that she's not ready and say no. She would have to go into school as normal that week, but based on last year's trip she wouldn't be alone as around 1/6th of the children didn't attend in 2019. And although her two besties would be away, she'd have at least one girl that she's quite friendly with staying behind with her at school.

AIBU? And also, even without additional needs, would you be signing your 10-year-old up for an overseas week-long trip when we're no longer part of Europe and still (presumably) dealing with a pandemic?

I think you should say no. It is a significant thing for many children to be away from home without family, even before any special or additional needs are considered where they apply. Then factor in the possibility of restrictions in what can be done once you arrive there, of it being cancelled, and the possible impact of Brexit, and that adds to the reasons not to go.

I am not sure were I a teacher that in the circumstances of the pandemic I would want to be the organiser or one of the adults there. Those going may not have been on any trip for nearly two years by September 2021, so anxieties and reactions may be more than in normal times.

Depending on where in France they are going, because of Brexit there may be an unsupportive response too. Since 2016 when a majority of British people voting made the decision to leave the EU, when I am in France I make as much effort to avoid being identified as English, as then you get asked straight away about Brexit (almost the only person not to ask my view was a former French Prime Minister whom I met last year). I doubt that most of the children speak French much of confidently.

Don't commit. The only other thing you might do is volunteer to go with her. But since there will be other kids not going, just leave her to be in school but check there is a good plan for those not going. And maybe have her friend over for one of the nights they're away? You don't say where the 5 nights will be, what the students are doing. Surely the school can put something online so those not going have some of the experience unless FOMO is a big issue.

I’m amazed this is the first trip they do and it’s abroad for 4 nights. I know of other schools which do a trip abroad in y5/6 but they’ve done 1/2 night residential nearby in y3/4 to build up to it, so it’s the third or fourth residential for the majority of kids going.

It sounds very unlikely she will be ready to go. I doubt the school will put pressure on in her situation - as a teacher I would be fully supportive of you not sending her. If she can’t manage a night at a friends for a sleepover, 4 nights in a foreign country is unlikely to go well.

In your position, no I wouldn't send her.

(My children, yes. But they love that sort of thing)

I think the school is very brave, but it's a shame they can't have a more inclusive Yr6 trip.

I was all set to say that you should try and send her as it either would be ok to go or not. But actually she doesnt seem ready for it and that is ok.

For other reasons DD missed her PGL trip (pre COVID) and stayed at school and had a lovely week. Around 20% didnt go so it was all fine

No, not if she doesn't usually deal well. Even sociable NT kids often struggle with it.

You won't be able to get her home.

I won’t. My DD has additional needs (not autism) so obviously I know other parents from our local group. Most of them did send their DC with additional needs for 3 or 5 days locally with their favourite TA or volunteered themselves. All such trips happened with a lot of planning and preparation. Abroad? No way.

The other issue is Covid, I don’t think we should plan so far ahead at the moment. Trip to Edinburgh - yes, to Paris - no. Once you are in the school won’t cancel it/ refund money, the pressure will only increase.
As to who should decide, well obviously you should decide as a parent taking into account DD’s wishes and interests.

I think it might be alright. The issue is with one night stays is that it’s always the first night that’s difficult for all the children, from my experience of working at different primary schools about 70% cry the first night. After that they’re used to it all and are perfectly fine! It might not be that way for your DD, but I’m sure she’s tougher than you think.

Thanks all. Most responses so far are quite reassuring!

@blahblah72637272 I don't know about being 'tougher than I think'; she still has a strong need to sleep next to me all night every night even at age 10. I'm guessing most kids heading off on four-night residentials don't actually sleep next to a parent at home and are fine in their own rooms?

Fully expecting to be told I'm a dreadful parent and should have forced her into night-time independence years ago.

Confused about why Brexit is an issue? We will still be able to leave the country, albeit with different rules/regs in place.
I digress.
Personally, from what you have said, I wouldn't send her (I'm a teacher who's taken loads of trips abroad and mother of child with similar needs) I think her additional needs as you have described suggest that she isn't ready yet and that is totally ok. With current restrictions you can't really give her a few practise runs either, and it's not looking like that would be a possibility any time soon. Yes a TA might go with her, but it might not be the one she is most used to working with and unless she has an EHCP school might not add in a TA for her as it's one of their adult places and ratio wise might not be specifically for her. That also wouldn't resolve sleeping issue. You need to think through how she would cope with the whole thing too. Even from south England you are usually looking at 8 hours at least on coach to get there, ferry/tunnel experience, busy service stations both sides of channel, with busy itinerary each day and a total lack of sleep.
I am also really surprised that any school is planning a residential abroad at the moment, even for September. There's a heck of a logistical difference between a family holiday, where you can make Covid related decisions at short notice, and a school trip; everyone I know is cautiously looking summer 2022 as absolute earliest potential school trip. Regardless of additional needs, I wouldn't be signing child up to residential abroad until we've been confidently declared totally Covid free for a while; everything is too up in the air.

I wouldn’t in this case for basically all the reasons you’ve said. Could you book a family break away for the money it would cost instead? And maybe have a sleepover with some friends at your home to sort of make up for it? It’s not the same of course but it might soften the blow?

Covid and Brexit aren't really the issue are they? You shouldn't be worrying about either of those.

Your decision should be made purely on whether your child could cope with it. It's very common for yr6 kids to have school trips to France and they go really well. But you need to talk to your daughter about what it will mean for her. Point out that she's not yet sleeping by herself, and you won't be there (this could actually be a good moment to talk to her about how she needs to start trying to sleep alone, because these opportunities are going to becoming along more frequently soon)

My children went on a one night away with school in year 4 and then a 4 night away with school in year 5. Both my children had been camping over night before this trip with scouts / guides etc. My daughter loved the 4 nights away but my son hated it. Lots of children in their class had not stayed away from home much and they hated it. Sorry I think your daughter is not ready yet.

You’d need to work on so many things to prepare her for the trip so only if that would be worth it and then you’d have to be willing to go and fetch her if she completely didn’t cope. I think it’s too much responsibility for her to decide and you should have the final say along with adults going on the trip if relevant. Agree it doesn’t sound like she will be ready yet. Maybe you can think about a family trip she can look forward to instead?

I think it might be kinder to her for you to make the decision. She’ll have guilt and fear of missing out if she’s left to decide, but if you do it for her then she can tell her friends you are the big meanie.

From what you describe, she doesn’t sound ready. Is there another trip in the future that you could help her prepare for in a longer timeframe?

In view of her needs, it might be worth talking to the school and seeing whether it is possible to delay the decision in her case - eg make the payments refundable if the decision in, say, July, is that she's not able to go. Of course they can't offer that to everyone, but it might be possible to make an exception.

If she'd like to go, perhaps it would be an incentive for her to work towards it by sleeping on her own at home, then try a sleepover at a friend's once rules allow.

Our primary has a great staging post to the year 6 residential; they camp overnight on the school field. A company brings tents and runs outdoor activities. Doing it on the school field makes things like going to the toilet in the night far less scary - because it's familiar territory. If any don't cope, it's quick to get them home, and they can be brought back for breakfast in the morning so they don't miss out on much.

No. At the start of year 6, that's way too long. I wouldnt contemplate more than 3 nights until .one were at least 14 and that's without the other issues that you mentioned.

And definitely not in another country during a pandemic- or even post pandemic.

I'd decline, DC1 didn't go on the residential last year, there's always a few who stay behind. No particular reason, DC just wasn't particularly bothered about going, no-one questioned me about it. They're actually not doing one next year in view of the CV situation.