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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think British Gas and other companies need to drop fire and rehire?

31 replies

BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 14:22

AIBU that the actions of British Gas set a scary precedence for the future of UK employers?

Long rant ahead regarding specifics of British Gas, but essentially, I’m annoyed that in our era companies can carry out fire and rehire and are not even ashamed by their bullying tactics. What happened to workers rights? When did they vanish? The PM and over 100 MPs encouraged BG to ditched the fire and rehire and sent a strongly worded letter to that effect, yet the company and others like British Airways (who did back down I believe) seem unashamed to use such barbaric tactics.

Aibu to think tactics like fire and rehire should be abolished?

For those who aren’t aware , British Gas are firing and rehiring their engineer work force. As a company BG have suffered losses year on year, they have lost customers, fallen off feb FTSE 100m massively drop in share price and are categorised as unstable. It’s all not Covid related, Covid probably helped them a lot this year really, but of course they choose now to do this to their staff.

What has happened is engineers and staff have been leaving for years and have not been being replaced, customers are now not able to get appointments as simply there isn’t enough staff to go around.

This year the front line staff worked through lockdowns in the home of customers, often without PPE in the beginning and are told they have to attend Covid positive homes. In addition, the company asked them to volunteer in their uniforms and vans to promote the business, many engineers and staff have up hours of time delivering for food banks and wherever they could, while working, to help promote the business.

Then in the summer they announced job cuts and restructures as well as announcing fire and rehire as did British Airways. The MD even slated BA on their tactics, which he is doing as bad to his own employees.

Yes, BG need to modernise their contacts and yes that is going to mean major compromise from the engineers but what they are asking is pushing it too far and will ultimately kill the business as more will leave.

They want to cut pay, make it more in line with other engineer jobs, they are taking away shift allowances etc which this equates to about a £3000 cut in pay a year.
They want to increase hours, they state this is a 3 hour increase, but pay isn’t going to reflect this, so in addition to the pay decrease, they will work more hours, for less pay.

They work from home now, so start and finish time is from home, although they have tried to argue this for years and many if not most, engineers start early and finish late so they are working their entire working day. I get it, it’s loss of money, so now they won’t pay the first/last half an hour, so if they have to 30 minutes for their first job, that needs to be in their own time and same at the end of the day. As I say many do this already but for some employees that don’t, it’s effectively 30 minutes twice a day extra, so an extra 2.5 hours a day.

They will also introduce a rota which means some weeks they will work 4 hours extra in addition to the 3 hours extra (they will also then have the opportunity to work less some weeks if the company dictates this), so some weeks they will work 7 hours more than they work now, and if they don’t currently come in “early/late ” (which is legal) then those engineers will be working an extra 12 hours than now on those weeks.

They will also lose some holidays, current overtime rates, current sick leave entitlement replaced, will be expected to pay for health care from the company scheme, and various other things.

In addition to this they are introducing a scheme into their contacts that they call a bonus scheme, it’s not really, what it actually is is a way to get more time out of them and I think this is the scariest bit really. They have come up with averages of job times, and set a limit on how much time an engineer can spend in a particular job. Say that’s 30 minutes for a service and 60 minutes for a breakdown for ease of explaining. If the engineer takes less than 30 minutes to service a boiler and out on way to next job, they are quids in, if they take longer they owe the company. They acknowledge that some jobs will take longer but they should be able to complete most within the job times and earn themselves extra to make up for the loss of pay.

The problem is 1. This massively compromises safety 2. The entire point of averages is that yes, sometimes it make take less but equally it will just as often take more time, so your never going to “earn” enough to cash out without comprising safety and without up-selling to a customer who is already paying more than the average for a supposedly better product, which how can it be if they can’t spend the time?

Engineers say it’s impractical and will not work. If they end up “owing” the company time for not going fast enough, then they will have two options 1. Face a disciplinary process, which is a three months and your out process or 2. And this is what their managers are telling them to do, come in on your day off and make up for lost time, for free. So their working week can be even more than they’re suggesting.

I think this will massively compromise customer safety and satisfaction (which they are also scored on). Also part of that is, currently if they get to the end of the day and there isn’t enough time to drive to another job, then they can go home, usually heading home 10/15 minutes early, under this schedule they must be active at their last minute, so they have to work past their finish time every day (or they owe time), so everyday they must be working past their finish time. They say that’s fine because maybe the next day you finish a bit earlier, which is fine in theory, but essentially if you have a bunch of rubbish jobs you could work past your finish time everyday and still not gain hours through no fault of your own, and we aren’t taking about 10/15 past now, we are taking 1.5 -2 hours when you factor in driving to the job, doing the Job, trying to sell products, driving home. Which has significant impacts on family life especially when most families both people are working with children and trying to balance childcare.

Even if they did all that and ended up with hours to cash out, it’s set on a scale, some or worth significantly less than their current hourly rate. Plus they have work lined up, so they won’t be able to say, oh I want to finish early today and use their hours, as the work is already line up, and they can’t do it in advance as they have no idea if the hours will still be there.

It’s frustrating as engineers understand the situation, and are willing to take some hits, but this situation is impossible.

Even more frustrating is the constant threats but their managing director and the fact despite the company failing and him telling the engineers if they don’t agree then they will kill the company, he is happy to take a 2 million bonus, as well as the rest of the SLT, and pay out dividends to share holders. They introduce a near impossible “bonus” scheme for engineers which mean many will be working for free, in a business is near jeopardy and yet give themselves a bonus? That I don’t understand. Staff morale is terrible, share prices are terrible, customer experience (based in Facebook) is awful, on what does a MD base is bonus on?

OP posts:
Lasttraintolondon · 18/12/2020 14:48

Lots there. I'd agree with you. The timed job - safety concern part is a huge issue. Easy to say but I'd leave the company and work for myself if I was them... Its impossible to get decent boiler engineers where I live.

WitsEnding · 18/12/2020 14:50

Totally agree with you. Dreadful behaviour which deserves no loyalty from staff or customers. A very few years ago it was BG who fought the unions through all levels of the courts to avoid paying fair holiday pay.

BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 15:20

@Lasttraintolondon

Lots there. I'd agree with you. The timed job - safety concern part is a huge issue. Easy to say but I'd leave the company and work for myself if I was them... Its impossible to get decent boiler engineers where I live.
Haha ... I type when I’m mad. I’m just outraged this can happen. I would say how do these people sleep at night but with near enough 3mil a year I image fairly well.

What happened to workers rights?

OP posts:
BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 15:27

@WitsEnding

Totally agree with you. Dreadful behaviour which deserves no loyalty from staff or customers. A very few years ago it was BG who fought the unions through all levels of the courts to avoid paying fair holiday pay.
Bonkers isn’t it? Now they eroding holiday further.

I feel for customers, they deserve safe and timely visits, and not rushed visits. Engineers clearly need to increase their time to meet demand but the company need to go back to the table to table and recognise their own failings and that engineers are not the problem.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 18/12/2020 15:29

People vote Tory and this happens ? And they are surprised.

If only, if only they had been warned before last year.

And for all the cries of "I didn't vote Tory", someone did. Enough to give this lot a majority big enough to fuck us all over.

And they'll do it again in 2024.

StoneofDestiny · 18/12/2020 15:38

Employee rights eroded further - yep, we are all in this together. Or not!

BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 15:39

@SerendipityJane

People vote Tory and this happens ? And they are surprised.

If only, if only they had been warned before last year.

And for all the cries of "I didn't vote Tory", someone did. Enough to give this lot a majority big enough to fuck us all over.

And they'll do it again in 2024.

I Know, and you're right they will keep doing it even though it directly affects them. It's bonkers.

I just worry what the future looks like for other major companies, it basically means that negotiations about contacts are now nil and void because employers can literally do anything and enforce it on their employees this way.

OP posts:
BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 15:42

@StoneofDestiny

Employee rights eroded further - yep, we are all in this together. Or not!
Exactly. Exactly the type of thing have said all year when sending engineers into homes, or off to food banks to promote the company image, all the while plotting behind their backs. Still they state they are all in this together, they need them to take the hit to save the company. Of course that doesn't apply to them as they happily take heavy bonuses for subpar work.
OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 18/12/2020 15:46

I just worry what the future looks like for other major companies, it basically means that negotiations about contacts are now nil and void because employers can literally do anything and enforce it on their employees this way.

Which is as it should be. Just wait until they find ways to avoid paying staff. I suspect BG are in the head of the queue, as they will be able to print "Gas Pounds" to pay staff in which can only be used to buy things from British Gas (why do you think supermarkets loyalty schemes have been crucial to government planning ?).

After all, a government getting rid of the right to judicial review, and the powers of the supreme court will have no problem quietly repealing the truck acts (no linky, people can educate themselves).

All to the tune of "Will of the people; will of the people ..."

As I say, someone voted for this and is happy it's happening.

I really shouldn't post after caffeine, I really shouldn't.

BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 16:04

@SerendipityJane

I just worry what the future looks like for other major companies, it basically means that negotiations about contacts are now nil and void because employers can literally do anything and enforce it on their employees this way.

Which is as it should be. Just wait until they find ways to avoid paying staff. I suspect BG are in the head of the queue, as they will be able to print "Gas Pounds" to pay staff in which can only be used to buy things from British Gas (why do you think supermarkets loyalty schemes have been crucial to government planning ?).

After all, a government getting rid of the right to judicial review, and the powers of the supreme court will have no problem quietly repealing the truck acts (no linky, people can educate themselves).

All to the tune of "Will of the people; will of the people ..."

As I say, someone voted for this and is happy it's happening.

I really shouldn't post after caffeine, I really shouldn't.

Don't give them ideas! 😝

It's sad but true though. I've heard of company doing that to temporary seasonal workers before, not sure if it's true or not though.

BG won't survive this, engineers are leaving and will continue to leave for better employment elsewhere. I heard many don't intent to come in on the rehire day. It's sad though, many employees stick to jobs for life and therefore care more about the company than a CEO who only intends to stay to sell off the company, or least that's how this appears to me.

I just think this is such a slippery slope. Like you say, employers can literally do whatever to employees with these types of laws. With unemployment at an all time high in many companies that will mean they need to suck it regardless. Less engineers have options some people don't have, but even still, I just can't believe it able to happen.

They threaten engineers with letters and emails and try adding it to job tasks to trick them into signing. Clearly informed consent is a thing of the past too.

Sorry for customers who will be the biggest loser here, especially with strikes going ahead this time of year, they have to though, they're are only striking for fire and rehire to be removed and if they don't then it will open the flood gates for many more companies.

OP posts:
Roystonv · 18/12/2020 16:42

Absolutely shameful behaviour for a company that still tries to trade on the British' in their name and how evil to even think of doing something like this to your work force and then adopting it as the way forward. It then opens up such practices to other companies so over time they become the norm. The trouble is most won't even know it is happening so we can't campaign against it

BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 16:55

@Roystonv

Absolutely shameful behaviour for a company that still tries to trade on the British' in their name and how evil to even think of doing something like this to your work force and then adopting it as the way forward. It then opens up such practices to other companies so over time they become the norm. The trouble is most won't even know it is happening so we can't campaign against it
I agree, I think it's perfect timing really as we have so much more going on it's never going to get the media attention this deserves.

I hadn't even heard the term fire and rehire before.

The company response has been "there is no more money" as of they engineers are instigating this for better pay! It's insulting. Also item same breath as no more money, they take bonuses, it like you cohost make up how ironic it all is.

People need to know this is happening because we need to stop this becoming the norm. As I understand it British Airways abandoned this at the last minute but not without causing a lot of damage.

People need to know what this will mean for the future of British employment.

OP posts:
cologne4711 · 18/12/2020 16:58

The timed job thing is very concerning - they need to do a job properly, not clock watch. Both from a safety perspective and pure customer service, if it's not done properly they will have to go back.

I would have thought they would have known this from call centres - better to have "one and done" than get someone off the phone and not actually deal with something properly so they have to call back which takes up more time in total.

Are service engineers not in a union? They'd have more clout if they were.

So is British Gas effectively making them al redundant and then rehiring on new lesser contracts? Tell them to get stuffed. Good heating engineers will always have a job, they don't need the British Gas name behind them.

No wonder my Centrica shares are worth peanuts...

SerendipityJane · 18/12/2020 17:05

Won't gas be scrapped soon anyway ?

cologne4711 · 18/12/2020 17:07

Gas boilers will be. I suppose people might still have gas fires and hobs but you won't need the service engineers for those in the same way - maybe they'll retrain for the new-style boilers!

BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 17:16

@cologne4711

The timed job thing is very concerning - they need to do a job properly, not clock watch. Both from a safety perspective and pure customer service, if it's not done properly they will have to go back.

I would have thought they would have known this from call centres - better to have "one and done" than get someone off the phone and not actually deal with something properly so they have to call back which takes up more time in total.

Are service engineers not in a union? They'd have more clout if they were.

So is British Gas effectively making them al redundant and then rehiring on new lesser contracts? Tell them to get stuffed. Good heating engineers will always have a job, they don't need the British Gas name behind them.

No wonder my Centrica shares are worth peanuts...

They are, they are part of the GMB, they are going on strike although the company are fighting that of course, they had a 68% turnout and a 89% yes vote, company are arguing it's not enough for strike.

Honestly every statement they make contradicts everything else, every thing they punish is twisted, and it infuriates me they can get away with it.

I think engineers will walk to be honest, but unlike the CEO engineers have been there years and want to get that great company back again. They want it to succeed, whereas I suspect the CEO just wants its sellable, the middle managers have said as much, they need it to look attractive to potential buyers.

I'm angry at what's happening but I'm more angry how this will mark a huge failure in UK employment. This will affect anyone in employment as when it happens it makes everyone's jobs and conditions much less secure.

Sorry about your shares, they will likely drop lower with strike action and the huge disruption it will cause at this time of year as the company have issued threatening letters stating they have to agree by the 23rd of this month or be fired and rehired under worse conditions than those who agree.

OP posts:
BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 17:18

@SerendipityJane

Won't gas be scrapped soon anyway ?
Not gas, and not boilers as such. From 2023 all NEW properties need to have alternative non-gas heating, so heat pumps are the obvious choice right now. That doesn't apply to any existing properties though, so they can continue to see boilers to the majority of UK households.

Heat pumps etc won't work as well in older properties, so there isn't a suitable replacement currently.

OP posts:
BritishGasFireandRehire · 18/12/2020 17:25

@cologne4711

Gas boilers will be. I suppose people might still have gas fires and hobs but you won't need the service engineers for those in the same way - maybe they'll retrain for the new-style boilers!
The engineers have asked for years for training. I think the reality is, given that gas boilers will remain the main heating source for any existing properties then there is a lot of work still out there.

I don't think the current options we have are great options from what. Have seen. Ground source pumps need lots of space which most uk properties don't have, and air source is noisy, takes up space and doesn't seem to be the the great alternative we hoped it would be.

Newer houses are going to need to be significantly more efficient for them to work effectively. So it's excellent option for new builds but extremely problematic for the majority of existing properties.

There is hydrogen options, I don't know much about them but they don't seem to be a viable option for most properties currently.

Things will improve though and they need to.

OP posts:
BritishGasFireandRehire · 19/12/2020 10:52

So yesterday the CEO told them that if they strike that will be the end of BG. It's just outrageous that they would blame this mess on the workers, workers who have worked hard for the company. More significantly, all they are asking for is to be heard. They are not asking for more money (whereas the CEO is taking his annual bonus), they are just asking to be heard at why this won't work. Plus the threat of working for free or they get stuck on jobs etc is a major point. The most significant thing though is that no company should be imposing fire and rehire. All the engineers want is that taken off the table, if this goes though it will cripple UK employment as it will erode away workers rights and security. If they strike and the company folds, it is completely on the CEO and those who are in forcing such immoral processes to erode away workers rights.

OP posts:
user1471565182 · 19/12/2020 11:03

Workers rights have vanished over the last 10 years. They quite openly did this, but because they were 'dealing' with those nasty 'scroungers' nobody gave a shit.

jasjas1973 · 19/12/2020 11:08

I wouldn't worry it OP, its the future and laws will not be introduced to stop it.
The Tories have an 80 seat majority, they could easily introduce legislation to prevent this from happening, no letter needed.

Companies changing TnCs to the directors adv has been going on for many years, it happen to me twice, both times under Blair, all they need is a "consultation" present the employee with a new contract and say sign or you have effectively resigned.

jasjas1973 · 19/12/2020 11:26

Oh and being in a union doesn't matter, i was GMB, fucking useless.

BritishGasFireandRehire · 19/12/2020 11:41

@user1471565182

Workers rights have vanished over the last 10 years. They quite openly did this, but because they were 'dealing' with those nasty 'scroungers' nobody gave a shit.
Awful isn't it? No one looks up to see the string we are being controlled by.
OP posts:
BritishGasFireandRehire · 19/12/2020 11:43

@jasjas1973

I wouldn't worry it OP, its the future and laws will not be introduced to stop it. The Tories have an 80 seat majority, they could easily introduce legislation to prevent this from happening, no letter needed.

Companies changing TnCs to the directors adv has been going on for many years, it happen to me twice, both times under Blair, all they need is a "consultation" present the employee with a new contract and say sign or you have effectively resigned.

Horrific, it's so hypocritical that they verbally criticise the actions of BG but then do nothing to stop it! GMB don't seem to be helping themselves much in this process but they are the only ones at least trying to stop this stupid fire and rehire avalanche.
OP posts:
Alrightnow · 19/12/2020 12:35

@jasjas1973

Oh and being in a union doesn't matter, i was GMB, fucking useless.
Exactly. Workers have no rights anymore and unions have no power. Workers are also bullied into believing they are just "lucky to have a job still"