to think this sounds like elderly abuse/exploitation

[ohmygodshedoes]

I visit an elderly neighbour friend in her 80s. She lives alone in rented accommodation-no kids, never married, no family. She does seem very lonely and has told me, always trying to get me over etc.

She seems of sound mind and is in ok health [although on medication for several issues and is overweight and slow at moving somewhat.] When I visit we wear masks and sanitise etc.

Anyway, she has a good pension [she worked as a doctor for years so is comfortable although renting due to losing her house over some bad investment a few years back].

What concerns me is she is 'friends' with a family who live about half an hour away. They are a middle aged couple and both parents work with four kids all under 18. She is their 'godmother' and really the family seems to be her life but what concerns me is that they are exploiting her. The whole make her godmother thing was to make her feel needed/a cash cow. She visits a few times a month and told me the father told them ''they are struggling'' so always gives the kids money [50-60 quid each] and buys excess groceries etc every time she visits.

She has confided in me that she has given them 1000s over the years and she has to help because ''I am their godmother'' despite the fact she then has being short of food herself as she gives them so much. She even had a turn about 2 months ago out carrying excess shopping for them in the cold weather and her limping around she was going to bring around to their house . She told me the family are 'lovely' etc but to me they sound sinister and are taking full advantage.

She has even taken on extra administration work to pay for their birthdays, christenings etc. I am getting very worried over this and have talked to her that this is wrong. WWYD?

It's very neighbourly to have concerns. But it sounds as though she has full mental capacity and has taken the decision to support her friends. If she doesn't have family of her own, then they are likely to provide her with company and affection that would otherwise be missing.

Absolutely keep an eye out for any further signs of abuse, but also accept that this whole relationship might be mutually beneficial.

Sorry to drip feed but she told me to that parents always drop hints over what they cannot afford. And it appears trivial matters they ring her on and she gets very concerned over [child hurting their tooth etc] knowing she will come around with lots of money to make it better.

I would also be concerned about this .

For the moment I would just aim to spend as much time as you are able to with her to try to monitor what is going on .

It does sound a difficult situation .

I suppose you could make a safeguarding referral to adults social services if you are concerned of financial abuse .

Perhaps start with a few more conversations with her to try to ascertain her understanding abs feelings about what is happening , suggest she says 'no' sometimes and see how that is met .

This was featured on Money Box this week - it may have some helpful advice?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q8z5

Also Age UK has an advice line:

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health-wellbeing/relationships-family/protection-from-abuse/

Thanks my thing I point out to her is that if they cared so much for her as she claims they'd be stopping the excess handouts.

I'm not sure I understand? Do you mean those 'friends' are coercing her or forcing her in some way to get what they want? Or taking advantage of her good nature and need to have company?

She has been 'friends' (not sure why you put friends in quotes) with them for years so she wasn't in her 80s back then? She was a Dr so presumably a bright and intelligent woman? And she says she is their 'godparent' again not sure why the quotes? Is she not a godparent or do you not know for sure?

I understand your being concerned but it bothers me that (competency aside) that we think older people can't make decisions for themselves and that they suddenly become unable to understand relationships. If this was a new friendship I think you would have more cause for concern or if she wasn't in control of her faculties, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. And you say she has taken on extra work for more money so she is employable even in her 80s?

My mobility isn't good these days and I am on lots of medication for various things and I'm only 60, but there's nothing at all wrong with my brain.

Some people are just takers. You have told her what you think, there is nothing more you can do. She is entitled to make her own decisions and, unless she says she doesn't want to do it but they won't let her stop, there is little else you can do except be a good friend and keep an eye on her.

''I'm not sure I understand? Do you mean those 'friends' are coercing her or forcing her in some way to get what they want? Or taking advantage of her good nature and need to have company?''

The latter, this woman is a recovering alcoholic and on antidepressants having had a lifelong battle with it so is vulnerable I think. She seems oblivious in ways and much too naïve, she tried to pay for my car repairs[costing 500 quid] etc but I refused.

''She has been 'friends' (not sure why you put friends in quotes) with them for years so she wasn't in her 80s back then? She was a Dr so presumably a bright and intelligent woman? ''

Friends in quotes as if they were friends they wouldn't be taking all this money off her and stop. And no she is book smart but street smart and common sense/judgement seems to be lacking in places. She was even handing over money to a man she met online she'd never met until I stopped it through advice.

''And she says she is their 'godparent' again not sure why the quotes? Is she not a godparent or do you not know for sure?''

Godparent to all of the kids as I think this was a clear attempt to make her feel part of the family and not out of the goodness of their hearts. Note that before she lost her house it was a pretty valuable asset- 5 bed London property in Notting Hill, worth millions so they knew she had cash.

.''If this was a new friendship I think you would have more cause for concern or if she wasn't in control of her faculties, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.''

The exploitation has being going on all these years and she confessed she often given them 1000s at Xmas alone etc.

''And you say she has taken on extra work for more money so she is employable even in her 80s?''

Yes it is just paper work for a doctor friend of hers-not sure of the ins and outs but she was taking it on and killing herself doing it ''to pay for the son's birthday party.''

''My mobility isn't good these days and I am on lots of medication for various things and I'm only 60,''

Yea but 60 is not elderly.

''She was even handing over money to a man she met online she'd never met until I stopped it through advice.''

Sorry that was a man she never met who wooed her and he was living in USA.

I'd speak to age concern or the equivalent in your area and take their advice

The latter, this woman is a recovering alcoholic and on antidepressants having had a lifelong battle with it so is vulnerable I think. She seems oblivious in ways and much too naïve, she tried to pay for my car repairs[costing 500 quid] etc but I refused

this puts a different slant on it slightly although it sounds like she/they have been this way for quite a long time.

Friends in quotes as if they were friends they wouldn't be taking all this money off her and stop. And no she is book smart but street smart and common sense/judgement seems to be lacking in places. She was even handing over money to a man she met online she'd never met until I stopped it through advice

Unfortunately some people don't have decent morals and this may be them. However, it may be that they are all just dependant on each other and that's what their friendship is based on. Also, Lots of people of all ages get taken in by internet scams, giving money to men who profess to have feelings for them, so as a stand alone that doesn't sound too bad especially if she stopped when you gave her advice.

Godparent to all of the kids as I think this was a clear attempt to make her feel part of the family and not out of the goodness of their hearts. Note that before she lost her house it was a pretty valuable asset- 5 bed London property in Notting Hill, worth millions so they knew she had cash.

That's a bit of a big leap for you to assume that really. Were they friends prior to her losing her house? What happened to the millions? Presumably she has no money since she is working in her 80s?

The exploitation has being going on all these years and she confessed she often given them 1000s at Xmas alone etc.

Confessed? Why would she need to confess, or even justify to anyone other than a partner, what she did with her money? Have you been friends with her all this time too?

Yes it is just paper work for a doctor friend of hers-not sure of the ins and outs but she was taking it on and killing herself doing it ''to pay for the son's birthday party.''

If she has the cognitive skills to do an admin job in her 80s then doesn't she have the same to decide whether to stop helping this family or not?

Yea but 60 is not elderly

No it's not but having medical issues and slow mobility doesn't mean that your brain is any less functioning regardless of age.

Have you asked her outright if she wants to stop giving to them? I do understand why you are concerned but unless she has said she doesn't want to do it or feels that they are forcing her I don't really see how it's anything to do with you? Does she live alone? Have carers? It's a tricky one really because she still has the right to make her own decisions regardless of whether you feel they are right or wrong.

Hmmmm that’s a tricky one. How about phoning hourglass (formerly action on elder abuse) to get some advice?

wearehourglass.org/

I’d call sws explain your concern and let them make the call as to whether to investigate. There is indication the financial exploitation - if that’s what it is- is causing harm to her if she injured Herself out getting their shopping in, and is leaving herself short of necessities. Not sure of your local laws as I am in Scotland but if u r then google adult support and protection and your local area.

I’d contact social services, it does sound like financial abuse to me.
I work closely with an area that deals with this.

This sounds like my mum's neighbour. It turned out she had entered into a same-sex marriage with the mum so that she was entitled to half her estate She was rinsing her for tens of thousands.

It reached crisis point when a paramedic suspected the mum of poisoning the lady. She is now NC, thank god.

Sounds like she’s being taken for a ride but also she seems full aware of what’s what .

''Sounds like she’s being taken for a ride but also she seems full aware of what’s what .''

That's the thing though, she doesn't seems to be aware of what's what. She listens to every sob story told by mum/dad and jumps to the rescue every time.

I’d contact social services, it does sound like financial abuse to me I work closely with an area that deals with this

So because she is 80 other people have to decide for her? Despite the fact that she has known this family for years (therefore she wasn't always 80), has always given them money and help apparantly freely, has the capacity to be in employment as admin to a Dr. Lives alone and looks after herself, travels regularly to see this family under her own steam and has not, according to the OP, expressed any concerns or wish to stop.

I agree they are taking advantage of her good nature by the sounds of it but that's a huge leap to financial abuse. First step would be for her friend (the OP) to ask her if she wants to, or thinks she would be allowed to, end this arrangement. The answer to that might give better insight as to wether intervention is needed.

That's the thing though, she doesn't seems to be aware of what's what. She listens to every sob story told by mum/dad and jumps to the rescue every time.

Listening to sob stories and offering to help is not financial abuse though. You said she offered you money when you mentioned your car needed something doing to it but you had the good grace to turn it down.

You need to ask her outright if she wants to stop helping them and let her know there are people who can help if she needs it.

It boils down to whether she has capacity to make these decisions about money, essentially. If she's able to understand what she's doing, including the risks and pitfalls, then it may not be a safeguarding issue - it may simply be a matter of somebody making an unwise decision, or a decision you wouldn't make yourself.

Capacity is situation-specific, but if she's mentally acute enough to be doing medical-related admin in her 80s, she may not be a vulnerable adult.

If you feel she is vulnerable, and not if sound mind to make these decisions about money, then take advice from your local adult social services department.

A woman M.P. explained to the House that she herself was abused by a persuasive partner who coerced and controlled her.

Nobody would say in a partner abuse case that someone who is otherwise mentally competent is immune from being groomed or coerced.

7.2 million older people are [known to be] abused every year in U.K. according to Action on Elder Abuse,( now known as Hourglass.) They have a helpline.

@20mum But, if OP thought her neighbour was being coerced by a husband instead, but there were no children under 18 in the household, it's very unlikely that adult social services would do anything. Social Services don't tend to intervene in situations involving mentally competent adults. Being old doesn't always mean you're vulnerable. If OP thinks her neighbour is vulnerable, she can take advice. If she's not a vulnerable adult, I know from experience that there's not much anyone can do.