aibu to wonder if special needs schools do more harm than good?

[firthy85]

hello. i am a totally blind person. now what i have to say probably very much depends on you and your child's circumstances. i went to 2 mainstream schools in my hometown. the first i was bullied on a daily basis. walked into hedges deliberately by other pupils had kids spit in my mouth, ugh!. because of all these problems i was moved. the second school had a visually impaired learning unit which was fantastic and the support was brilliant but because i had been bullied so much i never settled down. the head teacher then knew of a bording school 70 miles away which was just for visually imparied people. at that school i did better although we did ahve our bullies but that's every school right?. then i went to a well known college which was for visually impaired people at which point as a young adult i started to feel like the whole thing was rediculous. it was very institutionalised. yes i did need a lot of support with things such as household and basic skills which they offered but the problem was there was a higher majority of students that were autistic so obviously for many the level of understanding was different to mine with only having eyesight problems. i only made a small handful of friends because of the situation and worse the staff treated us all the same so sometimes i was talked to in such a way that made me feel insulted. you had to show yourself worthy of certain priviliges like going out on your own in a taxi somewhere. i had that privilige revoked on one occasion when i went to the local pub with a friend and we got very drunk. it only happened because i was pissed off with someone who i thought was a friend who was going to come up to see me and she didn't come and i only found out when i rang her to find out where she was as i hadn't heard anything. so what is your experiences with special needs children in the educational system? cream buns for anyone who read to the end without getting bored lol

they fail to see that putting children in mainstream often means segregating them even more

This. If a child with special needs has to have 1 ton1 teaching because they can't keep up, or they need support st break times then they're going to be isolated from their peers.
At special schools everyones in the same boat

someone said way above on the first page that they hate the sn bahsing from people with an agenda. no agenda here, just sharing my experiences and interested in others. like others have said what works for one person may not work for another.

I have two kids in SEN schools. Both are independent schools paid by my LA.

I think it really depends on level of need, how specific the school is aligned to needs but more importantly how badly the state SEN system.has been cut to the bone.

My 13 year old I did three appeals costing me about 5k a pop to get OT and speech therapy in mainstream. If was strongly fought at every step by the school. When his therapy I won came up for renewal after the first year, the school got it removed. So I did a fourth appeal to move into a SEN school with therapy onsite on staff. To get that it had to be in the private sector. He was years behind in mainstream with a IQ of 140. Now he is expected to get to uni.

There are many funky characters who all clash at school and emotionally it's not 100% perfect. But he is now happy. He doesnt stand out anymore and I never have to fight for anything so in our case it's not perfect but it's perfect for him. Yes he is I guess institualised a bit, but on the flip side he would have a chance in hell of passing a GCSE back in mainstream. Theres no perfect answer but they get kids who was excluded from mainstream written off at 11 into Oxford and Cambridge.

My younger boy has a speech disorder and goes to the only school in county who teach sign language. Back in state parents are being told their kids will never talk.

So I guess its weighing up a Bleek option against a non perfect solution. If the school concentrates on what it does well, it's a good option I think. Being top of the peer group I agree is worse as there is no one above you to pull you up, being stretched so you can get sucked along in their wake.

I was chatting to a mum if a child with severe SEN. She said moving him to a special school was the best thing she had five. As he was more independent. He didn't need a 1:1 to sit with him all the time. So learned a lot by being able to be more independent.

@HMSBeagle

oh don't know what happened there beagle. i tagged you but it tagged without the message. its disgusting that you had toappeal and spend rediculous amounts of money for your ds to get the education he needs something which should be a right and not a privilige. i found out from a college staff member who was a bit more open with us that the reason blind people only were such a minority group compared to autistic was that apparently they get more money to encourage parents of severely autistic children to enrole in special educational colleges. that particular college was very different years before i attended. most of the students were partially sighted or blind and there was much more emphasis on individual trust and it didn't feel like an institution and a true college experience. a total contrast to how it was by the time i went.

@BackforGood

I am sorry you didn't have a good experience in your schools, however I think the generalisation you are making it really not thinking about the needs of so many children who need specialist support. I agree with almost everything maudspellbody has said. Special school provision is VASTLY different in different authorities. Mainstream provision is extremely mixed. Some schools are dire. Some are brilliant. Most are doing their level best without decent training, or enough funding, and constantly fighting other pressures from things such as League Tables and OFSTED 'statistics' giving out %s of children that pass this and that without giving any narrative to the children the school are admitting and working with.

The only point I'd disagree with in Maud's report is but in the end, whatever strong advice you give, parental choice can not be over-ridden. In my LA, there are nowhere near enough special school places for the children that need them / families that want them, so parental choice is over-ridden far too often.

Oh I agree - I actually meant more when the decision is the opposite. There was a child I taught in Year 4 in special school who would have thrived in mainstream with support and had no peer group in that school, but his parents wouldn't budge. So in that sense, we couldn't make it happen for him.

In another situation, there is a child struggling in mainstream and a (highly rare) and perfect place available in a resource base, but again, parents are steadfastly refusing to accept it.

That can be frustrating when the places are available and the options are there, but parents do have the final say usually.

(I also had I take my LA to tribunal to get my DS's SEN place, so I'm also aware of that struggle - so I see it from all angles)

So that comment was really only thinking of those 2 cases that are constantly on my mind where the perfect provision is being pushed and parents are pushing back.

And before you say - I know parents know their children best, but in some situations they can't see the big picture because of other issues - which would be massively outing for me to elaborate on!)

It's just so hard to know what to do for the best.

I think what is really important is choice. And that's what's really lacking in our restricted two-tier system (although I do recognise that mainstream schools with bases aim to answer this need, that wasn't a choice available for us when DS started secondary).

Interestingly having just had contact with a charity for VI people, it seems their school is for children with LDs and VI, rather than just VI children and they have a big focus on supporting schools who have VI students at all levels. That seems 'right' to me - VI in itself shouldn't stop someone being able to access 'mainstream' education. I wonder if you would have attended a specialist college today OP or have things changed quite a bit where you are?

@Lougle your experience seems very similar to mine.

talking about colleges. I did find when looking at them, some were just not right. one we looked at was sn college that has a really good record for people with autism. but totally unsuitable for someone with out autism and in a wheelchair.
I think you do have to really look carefully. dd ended up at on over 3 hours from where we live. but is suited her so well.

It's hard. Here in Ni was dont have academic special schools. It's a real gap. I'm currently wondering what to do with ds2 when he starts high school. He is severely dyslexic (reads and writes at age 5/6) and asd. Coping great at primary with 1:1. If we send him to secondary special school then virtually no chance of gcse's. But how on earth will he cope in secondary mainstream when he cant read or write? His maths is decent level.

Dc2 is 10 btw

lonny, no chance. i wouldn't go down the specialist college route now for a gold clock. it was institutionalised enough when i went to this particular specialist college in 02-04 so it probably will be much worse now assuming me with only being vi would even get a place because i am not ASD. problem was it was somewhere to learn basic living and household skills,but the problem was they had so many rules and regulations that you felt shielded very much from most of real life. to the poster talking about your dd going to a school 3 hours away that's pretty grim that she was so far from you but its great that she has done so well from it. its the kind of sacrifice we sometimes have to make

It depends on the individual but I think school should prepare you for real life and theres no blind only workplaces, restaurants, highstreets etc

The bullying is disgraceful and should have been dealt with.

Some people just cant cope in mainstream and would end up with no education at all if they didn't go to a specialist school but I think wherever possible children should be supported to stay within the mainstream population.

@Waveysnail dont know if it's any help to you. I'm severely dyslexic too, rated in bottom 2% for reading in my assessment. My trick was to read each word, underline it if I thought it was important, then read my underlined bits. It's all the waffling that makes things hard to keep track of.

The problem with your school (college) seems to have been that it was for autistic children too- a completely different issue.
My niece is at a special school for autistic children. She is virtually non verbal and has physical issues too. The school has been amazing. She has one to one therapy for different things throughout the day, still socialises at break and lunch, and is thriving. There's no way she could go to a mainstream school. It is also year round, allowing her mother to work.
But my sister had to sue the state board to get them to pay for it (this is outside uk). Their initial provision was pretty much just day care - not at all helpful in term of the child learning and progressing.
It's so much what each individual child needs. But I think there definitely is a place for special schools.

You’re opinion is, of course, valid. I think the problem is that SEND incorporates such a huge variety of needs. I also think it’s important to consider the pupil’s emotional and cognitive age. Awareness of ‘being different’ impacts on one’s ability to cope with school.

I know a number of children who have thrived in a mainstream school that has a separate SEN unit on site. That can be a good option for those with certain needs. I do think it probably varies from school to school and the demographics. Some schools have a naturally more inclusive vibe.

i think it galled me more at this college that the few of us who were just visually impaired were talked at like children the way you may talk to an adult with severe autism or other disability where you lack capacity. it is perhaps easier said than done but i believe every student should have been treated according to individual needs. we were treated individually in the sense that care plans varied between students but the overall approach to the entire college was the same.someone like me should ahve had more leeway to independence than i did. took me a year to be allowed to go out with someone else without staff chaperones

@firthy85

i think it galled me more at this college that the few of us who were just visually impaired were talked at like children the way you may talk to an adult with severe autism or other disability where you lack capacity. it is perhaps easier said than done but i believe every student should have been treated according to individual needs. we were treated individually in the sense that care plans varied between students but the overall approach to the entire college was the same.someone like me should ahve had more leeway to independence than i did. took me a year to be allowed to go out with someone else without staff chaperones

This was very wrong and I am sorry that you had this experience. I know my DS's school is different as the children are all Deaf and few have additional needs. Sixth formers, for instance, are encouraged to have driving lessons with specialist instructors and are given appropriate independence from what I have seen. He is also weekly boarding, so is not institutionalised at weekends and still has local friends, so it's a very different situation.

I really hope things have changed now at your college. I know it is something that is being thought more about as a 'preparation for adulthood' section is now on the EHC Plans and are tailored to the young person. This, for you, would have had very different targets from the other pupils - and I hope this will make a difference to young people from now on.

I'm glad you are raising the issue, though, because we need to be so mindful of treating every child - even within a single-specialism provision (VI/Deaf/ASD) - as an individual with varying needs.

@Nottherealslimshady
Thank you. We are finding word hornet a useful tool but I must admit I have a panic about his future