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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Freedom Programme for a 13 year old?

17 replies

DM1209 · 17/12/2020 10:51

My very soon to be (this month) 13 year old has asked me about Domestic Abuse, how to spot if it is going to happen, what to do if it does happen, how to help someone if you know they are being abused and most importantly, recognising abusive behaviour.

For context, my background is legal, over the last year or so she has read a fair few textbooks and practice manuals as well as legislation regarding Domestic Abuse. My work is more court related and after the offences have taken place rather than support and safeguarding before or during the offences.

She has never witnessed abuse in our home, her father left when she was 7 due to an affair he had but it was a clean split in terms of no abuse involved.

She is a total justice warrior and partly that is because I have 3 daughters and I want them to grow up independent and well informed and partly it is due to my work. I see it far too often where women of all ages were not given the knowledge beforehand and so they didn't have the power to act. I am not saying that all DV situations can be tackled with knowledge but more prevention based if you know what you could be dealing with.

My question is this, I have many clients that have completed the Freedom programme and I have read about it on here. I know a lot of it is about recognising abuse. The programme has been mentioned a few times at home (due to work) and at school during PHSE.

My daughter has asked me if we can do it together as an educational tool but because I have never seen any actual content, I'm unsure.
Also, I don't want to scare or scar her OR demonise men. She's a very, very well read child but she's still very young and impressionable.

Would I be unreasonable to consider actually going ahead with this?

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IndigoHexagon · 17/12/2020 11:04

I’m not 100% sure of this, but I’m sure someone will know, but isn’t there an actual version of the freedom programme aimed at teenagers (more 16 years old I think?)

pepsicolagirl · 17/12/2020 11:09

I have completed the freedom programme and my handbook is on a communal bookshelf for my children to have access to too. I have shown it to my 14yr old daughter and I believe it is useful to know what the freedom programme teaches just as much as having it to reflect on past experiences. I do believe there is a teen version too.

OlympicProcrastinator · 17/12/2020 11:18

I don’t think it’s a good idea. It’s full of women who are still in the midst of some serious violence, family support workers and troubled people sharing their trauma stories. Not appropriate for a child to be there it could put women off sharing openly in the session.

DM1209 · 17/12/2020 11:33

There is an online version that she wants to do. I would never take her to actual sessions in person.

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DM1209 · 17/12/2020 11:35

@pepsicolagirl, how do you think your teen felt about seeing the content that you showed her?

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TurquoiseDragon · 17/12/2020 11:38

I reckon the online version could be helpful, and if there's a teen version, even better.

Enabling girls to grow into women capable of understanding and properly responding to DA, the better for all of us.

I plan to do the online version myself, and my DD (20) is interested in doing this to help her understand and ensure her boundaries are good for when she properly starts dating, sor of pre-arming her. We've had discussions about her dad and how his abuse manifested, and she's learned a lot (and put it into practice with her first bf, he's an ex now). I think it'll be worth it.

DM1209 · 17/12/2020 19:19

Bump for more opinions!

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Underadesk · 17/12/2020 19:28

Hmm, thats a hard one. Maybe the teen one, or if there are some good reputable resources on healthy relationships.

Underadesk · 17/12/2020 19:29

I mean, its hard because it could make her very cautious if she doesn’t need to be yet

DM1209 · 17/12/2020 19:34

@Underdesk, I agree about making her overly cautious, I don't want her being scared to live her life.

Awareness yes, scarring her mentally, no.

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Thehouseofmarvels · 17/12/2020 19:55

Could you ever find a mumsnet thread on domestic abuse and let her read it? I have learned a lot on here!

Avocadotoastie · 17/12/2020 20:33

We were told it's intended for 16+. I do know someone who asked about enrolling her younger teen and was told she was too young. I think in the end she used some of the summary diagrams on healthy vs abusive relationships to have conversations with her child.

The charity have an email address, you could just ask. I know they do work in schools but I'm not sure whether that is also 16+. I'm fairly confident it's not the complete course, but samples / adaptations.

Ultimately, you should do the course yourself first if you decide to let her do it. Personally, I'm not sure I would set a 13 year old off to follow it on her own. It is in no way comparable to reading legislation - legislation is cold, impersonal and distanced. This course is up close and personal. Read the course book together, maybe, because you can discuss and contextualise and support. But only after reading it yourself first.

Some of the examples are upsetting as an adult, in particular the sections on sexual abuse and the effects of abuse on children. I wouldn't want a 13 year old reading that and I certainly wouldn't leave them to read it if I hadn't read it myself. It's distressing.

I don't think it would demonise men, that's an unhelpful characterisation of the course. It discusses patriarchy and misogyny in terms of how those parts of our culture perpetuate abuse - victims are conditioned to accept it as normal, abusers feel entitled to abuse, observers turn a blind eye. It doesn't suggest that "all men are abusers". That would not be helpful.

What distressed me was being confronted by the deliberate nature of abuse, the reality of how much suffering humans choose to inflict on one another, and how many were suffering. It was easier when I thought it was accidental and only happening to a few of us. The course includes examples of real abuse and real suffering, in detail. (I have read legislation and the other types of materials you mention - not the same at all, not even close.)

All examples used in the course happened to multiple people (because if they used examples that had only happened to one or a few it would risk their safety and privacy), so that means the acts you struggle to imagine anyone perpetrating were thought up independently by multiple abusers and inflicted on multiple victims.

It's not easy to come to terms with. I'm not convinced it's a good idea for a 13 year old child to be given that level of detail - is a child developmentally able to digest it and apply it with the judgement required or is she just going to lose trust in people? Or hold a simplistic view ( "oh, this is my checklist of warning signs, if someone doesn't do xyz actions then it can't be abuse" ) that leaves her at risk herself? She's still at an age where things are quite black and white, which makes seeing and interpreting the dynamics and nuances difficult.

Of course, it does also cover healthy relationships but for a child without a facilitator running an in-person session to put things in perspective, I would be concerned about the darkness clouding out those aspects. Again, will she be able to understand the dynamics and nuances? See the distinctions and understand them? Process the grey spaces? Not so sure. We feel grown up and wise at 13 but that's not the same as having an adult's understanding of things!

We pretty much always recommend doing the course in person (pandemics aside) because you don't take the same from it alone without a facilitator and without any discussion. I think that would be even more the case for a child - the work they do in schools is discussion based.

I would contact the FP team and have a conversation. They've always been helpful and approachable when I've made contact with different questions.

Avocadotoastie · 17/12/2020 20:41

I was looking for something else on the FP website, but this came up:

escapethetrap.co.uk

It's basically a version of the FP designed for 13-16 year olds. Unfortunately (given the pandemic) it seems to be group courses only, but might be worth a look and contacting them?

Having looked through the programme structure and content summaries, in my view, it is clearly more suitable and has adjusted for the aspects of the FP that would concern me for a child.

Given that this wasn't even what I was looking for, I'm sure there will be other options too that are more age appropriate.

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 17/12/2020 21:38

You could try www.childline.org.uk/info-advice/friends-relationships-sex/sex-relationships/healthy-unhealthy-relationships/

It sounds like she has her head screwed on and would question things and talk to you anyway so that seems like a great start

rachelbloomfan · 17/12/2020 21:47

It’s great your daughter wants to find out more. I have unfortunately been through domestic abuse and wish I had been armed with some of the information from the Freddom Programme at age 15-16 or so before I got into a situation which I did not recognise as abusive, never having come across this at all and having had quite a sheltered background. I agree some of the content is quite adult perhaps but I do think some broad strokes information would be good such as looking at all the techniques abusers use (it’s literally like they all have “The Abuse Handbook”! Quite shocking when you compare stories with other DV survivors how similar they all are and how we all were somehow unable to recognise it as a pattern so in that sense it’s good to know the pattern). I think it would be reasonable to go through the course with her. Some of the more adult type sessions about sexual abuse etc. I guess you might want to go through yourself and decide how much is appropriate to go into with her. I think the Freedom Programme is wonderful. However I will admit I do think it is just a little bit anti-men! I know that’s not the intention and they are careful to say not all men are abusers etc. but that is how I found it when I did it and still find it. Real life has some slightly greyer areas than spelled out in the course in my opinion, however it’s a good place to start. And the sentiment is understandable for me in the context of the course being aimed at “de-programming” and educating traumatised women who have been victims of DV.

DM1209 · 18/12/2020 08:28

Some really helpful responses here, thank you all.

Also, my opening post does state that she wants us to do it together, just as someone assuming I would take her to a live session and then someone else assuming I would let her do the programme alone, neither is correct.

Also, while the programme doesn't 'demonise men', for a impressionable teen it very definitely gives a view that abusers are men, with the caveat thrown in about women. I don't want my daughter taking anything negative from the experience, more so I want her to have awareness, forewarned is forearmed.

Thank you again for the feedback.

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