School constantly asking for money

[abitofpeace]

Just wondering how it is in other people’s primary schools. Ours is constantly asking for money. Usually raffle tickets, etc but more recently some of the parents are selling stuff through the school and giving the profits to the school. It feels like everyday they ask for something!

There is also a monthly (optional) direct debit if parents want to pay regular. Are finances so bad that thee government need such a large boost?

You don't have to donate a penny, but just be aware that schools have been disgustingly underfunded year after year for a VERY long time. With extra Covid costs this year, and fewer opportunities for the big money makers like Christmas and Spring fetes, etc, many schools are on their knees (even more so than usual)

Again, I’d prefer to be asked to buy ten boxes of pens (and would happily do so) rather than get a call about one pen. I do think schools should have a ‘comms strategy’ for these types of small requests - I do an important public sector job too and it would be a terrible use of public money and everyone’s time for another public sector professional to phone me about one pen. I think that’s similar to what the OP said about the dripped requests for £1 or £2 here and there.

Volunteer to be a school governor and discover for yourself how hard it is to balance the books within current school funding limits.

School budgets are absolutely tiny compared with what they have to pay for and that was already pre-Covid.

In DD's primary the PTA raised money for playground equipment, IT supplies, basic arts and craft supplies, new library books, several sensory equipment for the SEN class (whose budget is even worse), trips to the panto as many parents couldn't afford one, visitors to the school for enrichment activities, forest school session, the list goes on and on.

It is basically impossible to do more than the bone basics with the allocated budget and we are a fairly well-off area so people were able to hand over £1 here and there for whatever and attend fireworks and fairs. The school stopped charity fundraising at one point as they didn't want to add more pressure to parents.

It is actually a disgrace that state schools are not funded properly.

I am still laughing at the pp who said money was wasted on fancy toilets for the teachers!!! I worked in the same school for 30 years. The staff toilets were a disgrace when I started. We finally got a refit in my 25th year there. They used the absolutely cheapest building materials they could find. The pipes were not even fitted properly. they did put in a soap dispenser but it was never replenished with soap once the first batch ran out. The only reason we had soap in the toilets is because we brought it in ourselves.

In 30 years I had one new staff desk - again the cheapest that they could possibly find. Utter rubbish - the drawers fell apart within 12 months. No budget for shelves - I bought my own from B and Q and the caretakers fixed them to the walls for me. I repainted my own classroom one Easter holiday and my own expense when I just could not face another year of having to look at the peeling paint.

My classes had glue sticks because I paid for them. The countless numbers of students who 'forgot' a pen had pens provided by me.

Budgets have been cut and cut and cut. It has got progressively worse. And, as pps have pointed out the largest chunk of the budget by far goes on staffing costs, so many schools will either not replace staff when they leave, or go for a far cheaper NQT. Experience = expense, and whilst there is nothing wrong with NQTs (we were all one once!) and some are truely outstanding - it is not great practice to have a very high % of inexperienced staff. In my final years at my school the discipline problems were off the scale. Of course, this is down to the kids (and often their parents), but I know that the more experienced staff we had lost would have been able to get on top of those problems far more quickly.

When budgets are tight then every penny counts. So, that means retaining kids - at practically any cost. So if a schools has falling numbers it means that they will be happy to take on all students -whatever issues that brings to the school. We were taking on all of the students who were being 'asked to leave' their old schools - more discipline problems. Again, all students have a right to an education, but when your school becomes the 'go to' school for moving them on to it means that they all end up in the same school - with the cheaper, less experienced staff to deal with them.

It is not right to keep asking parents for money. But if you want to know why schools and PTAs keep asking then it because they really are desperate for it. Looking back 30 years ago we had only 2 IT rooms in my school - by the time I left this had multiplied many times over. Schools need this equipment - those skills are essential for our young people in the workforce. But the cost of buying and maintaining it is eye watering. My school really needed at least 3 more IT tech staff but could not afford it. Those of you who use IT every day in work would be shocked at how old and outdated a lot of the IT equipment is in schools.

Ds school has a fantastic senco. They managed to juggle the budget to provide Ds the 1-1 we knew he needed while together we fought the LA to sort the ehcp to cover it. Even though everyone else involved knew it was needed time had to be wasted fighting to get it and in that time the school had to take money from elsewhere while waiting for the local authority to do what was needed.

My dc are older now but I do remember constantly being asked for money !
The final straw was when I had to pay to watch them in their Nativity play !!
I stopped all donations!!

@Ohtherewearethen well wouldn't you consider spending thousands on something that the children can't actually use during the school day a waste of money? That could've been spent on new computers, or decent toilets, or necessary basics for the children. Or, actually put it in the playground where the children would get enjoyment and benefit from.
It's the constant pleas and emotional blackmail that parents get from the school for money (and the pita PTA!) to guilt parents - usually the ones that can ill afford it - into paying for things that are really pointless. If parents could actually see a difference or benefit then they would be more likely to donate.
But, the PTA at our school live in cloud-cuckoo land as the list of demands for fetes etc are always ridiculously extravagant. When they ask for bottles for the tombola they don't want cheap wine- oh no it must be "proper" alcohol ie. min £15 per bottle and they expect this per child, not per family. Any donations must be brand new - and a specified thing.

It seems at DD school the money raised goes towards the little extras - like doing a special Xmas meal with xmas crackers, Santa's grotto and gift from father Xmas, or for a new bit of play equipment for the playground, at the moment I think the big thing they are saving for is a shelter for bikes and scooters. I don't mind when it's for a specific purpose such as this which isn't necessarily connected to day to day schooling and is a "nice to have"

I hear you. We pay a start of term contribution of £40. If that was it, I wouldn’t mind so much but then throughout the term we also get asked for more. £5 to buy a piece of my child’s “art work” was a favourite. I paid and duly received said scribble but that’s recently been beaten by the request to pay £2 so they can run around the playground wearing a Christmas hat.

Tbh I probably shouldn’t be so sensitive but given I’ve had to close my business for 8 months this year and just paid the ‘suggested’ contribution of £15 per child towards Christmas presents for the staff, my patience is running thin.

No. I’m not paying £2 so my child can run around the playground wearing a fucking Christmas hat.

Normal schools are not a priority for this government, hence endless cuts in funding. It really is that simple. The good members of the Conservative Party and their children will be fine, though.

Oh, these are what I call the "non voluntary contributions", very often we just ignore it.

The financial situation in schools is dire. I believe 75% of schools in my area are set to post a deficit budget for next year.

In most schools staffing is 80%-90% of the budget which means if money needs to be saved you need less staff or cheaper staff which reduces the quality of teaching.
Schools buy in professional services too like speech and language or OT but thats all but vanished .

I cant say that asking parents for things is right - particularly if it feels constant and its not known how its used, but schools are struggling these sorts of fundrausing can pay for nice extras like a travelling theatre, updating the books, art materials. PTAs have long paid for this sort of thing.

@reluctantbrit
They’re not funded properly because Tory MPs don’t use them. Or if they do use them, they use ones in wealthy areas where parents happily make up the short fall. Or they make up for the poverty of school resources by spending thousands on private tuition. It’s nice of the masses to support this system which works very well for them and their children.

My DC primary school was similar. Always asking for money for things to improve learning and local charities.

It came to a head when they wanted to build a new hall & toilets. Basically they had to raise X% in order to secure funding from government... hardly anyone contributed. At this point most parents were tired of "giving". We received a very snotty letter from the governors about the luck of interest in our children's education. As far as I know they still haven't build that extension.

I think schools need to be careful about when & how much they ask for.

I agree, it was pretty constant when my DS’ started primary school, I used to keep pound coins at home for emergencies. I hate to say it but it was even worse when they started at senior school.

@loutypips - do you know the process of getting the play equipment? Was it funded by a grant? Ringfenced money? Did it have to go in that particular area for an important reason? Is it to be used to support a curriculum area? I just find it incredibly difficult to believe that the headteacher of a school facing crippling budget cuts would just wake up one morning and decide to blow tens of thousands of pounds on a completely unusable playground. Surely the other members of staff and governors would have said something about it? Is it possible you don't know the whole story?
As for the PTA - complain to the school PTA rep if it's getting too much. Moaning about it on MN isn't going to change anything. I can't believe they are price checking bottles of alcohol donated to the summer fete. You can get bottles of 'proper' alcohol much cheaper than that. A litre bottle if Bailey's is £9.50 in Tesco at the moment Ultimately though, they will accept what you donate. If everybody decided to donate a bottle of wine then they'd have to accept them or go without. Wine is more widely consumed by spirits anyway. It would be no incentive to me to buy extra raffle tickets to win a bottle of gin I'd never drink.

We had a message about a dressing up day, it said something like "Please don't buy a special costume, unless of course you want to! "

No I don't, and especially in lockdown. 30 parents traipsing around the shops in lockdown for costumes is the last thing our town needs.

I suppose there is online shopping but still, it did erk me a bit.

Oh yes - and when the year 6 students and their parents came into school to take part in the evening taster sessions the reason why the kids were doing all of that fun craft stuff that impressed them so much that they applied to join us in Year 7.... I paid for that myself. All of the glue and the glitter and the coloured card and the sweets. Every. Single. Year.

It was a directive from the head - wow them!!!! Well you can''t really wow prospective parents and students with ripped and scribbled on text books that the parents themselves might have actually used during their time in school. And the classrooms that were so shabby, needed repainting, had water stained ceiling tiles due to the leaks for the ancient pipework. Make sure those lights are switched off and the doors locked.

I really, really wanted to open up those doors. If parents could see the physical state of some of the classrooms their children are being educated in then they might start to lobby their MPS, or think carefully about who they want in power in the next election.

Yes ring fenced funding (like the sports grant) and other grants that are very specific do mean schools might suddely have a swanky bit of equipment even though something more useful cant be afforded.

I don't mind paying a few quid here and there. Most of it goes to things that clearly benefit the children such as school trips, play equipment. The PTA are giving each child a book this year for xmas instead of the usual discos/parties. They fund it from raffle tickets and such like. The school don't allow the PTA to ask for unlimited contributions, it's very carefully planned to 3 or 4 events a year. I'm constantly amazed at how well the school manage their budget actually although I'm sure there are gaps in places.

@willsa

I can't stand it when schools ask for money, I have no belief whatsoever that it doesn't line someone's pockets. My son has attended two primary schools - one money grabbing CoE school (the worst offenders imo) and now another state school that has asked for maybe £2 this year. Huge contrast! And £2 I'm happy to donate. To be fair, I ignore all requests if it becomes excessive.

Whose pockets do you think are being line? That's hilarious.

To be fair, I wouldn’t welcome a call about a borrowed pen either grin can’t you get them back in class time?

Then send your kid to school with a pen! I teach 180 kids, there’s probably 5 in each class that don’t bring a pen each lesson, I refuse to buy them out of my own money as many break them on purpose as they have no respect for other peoples belongings. Currently I am having to ask if other students can lend them a pen.

Other than ringing parents what do you suggest I do in this scenario?

Are finances so bad that thee government need such a large boost?

Sadly, yes. TBH I thought it was common knowledge that state education is so very massively underfunded. And anyone considering having a large family needs to take this into account.

Maybe those of you who think schools have loads of money to burn should become a governor and then find out what the true position is

This ^^
I used to be a school governor and was on the finance committee. The school was the fourth lowest underfunded secondary school in the country

Well said willsa. One DC is at a CoE school and it’s constant. We’ve been asked for £3 so far this month and that’s not including the money for the PTA raffle tickets Even worse, we a have a dress up day tomorrow (Stone Age) and also have to bring in a list of party food for the children’s last day on Thursday

TBH that is normal pre-covid fundraising stuff. Even back when I was in school in the 1960s and 1970s PTA fundraising was usual. I think parents who send their children to school not expecting to pay out for anything more than school uniform are very naïve. It is part and parcel of having children. If you can’t afford it you can’t afford it, but if you can it is rather mean spirited to not donate when schools are so desperately short of money.

I find this quote shocking. It's not like we have really low taxes or anything!

But we do, unless you are a high earner. I would happily pay more tax to get better funded services like education/the NHS/police/fire service, and most people I know would.

The only schools who aren't underfunded are those in highly deprived areas who receive a lot of pupil premium money as a result of having a high percentage of child in receipt of income-based free school meals

That money is ring-fenced for the pupils who need it. It can’t be spent on other pupils.

The final straw was when I had to pay to watch them in their Nativity play!! I stopped all donations!!

Did you feel good about it

When I was on the PTA at DD’s primary school we used to write a newsletter every term informing the parents of what the PTA fundraising paid for. The pupils used to have to share laptops, so a lot of the funds paid for enough laptops so that there was one laptop per pupil to be used in the classroom.

I normally happily donate however the requests have been excessive since September and lots of parents are struggling more so now more than ever. Many working parents have been hit hard this year and that also needs to be thought about.
Our school is shit with communication especially giving parents notice of upcoming events like the the Christmas jumper day which was sprung on parents 4 days beforehand. We had the privilege of paying a £1 to wear the jumper on top of school uniform whereas if they had said Christmas clothes lots of parents could've cobbled something together out of normal clothes meaning they didn't have to go out and spend.
I'm not in a position right now to donate like I normally would and I know lots of other parents are in the same situation.