We need to talk about Pornhub

[antithissocialmedia]

A BBC article this week linked the NYTimes article from the beginning of December which highlighted many problems with Pornhub. I link the NYTimes report below and also the update published the following week which highlights some changes being made as a result of the first article:

www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-rape-trafficking.html

www.nytimes.com/2020/12/09/opinion/pornhub-news-child-abuse.html

I don't think the changes are enough. Pornhub has announced that only user identified videos will be able to be uploaded and as of yesterday have apparently removed everything else - but it will be easy enough to get around it. Also, going on Pornhub's track record it won't be enforced. The linked report highlights that there are a truly miniscule number of moderators employed to review material on the site (I think the report says 80 moderators?), yet there were 13.5 million videos on Pornhub before Sunday night - as of Monday morning there were 2.8 million and this was only because Mastercard and Visa had withdrawn their permission for their cards to be used while they reviewed the situation with illegal material on Pornhub. You would need a lot more than 80 for 2.8 million. And how much longer will this last? Every time Pornhub is criticised it seems it declares that the criticisms are old or wrong or out of date and that changes to its policies have been made – yet the same inexcusable material is apparently uploaded.

It is all part of the wider problem in relation to the terrifying rise of child sexually exploitation on the net and the money associated with it. Another quote from the journalist who wrote the above report: “In 2015, 6.5 million videos or other child sexual abuse material were reported to the authorities in the United States; last year, the figure was 69 million” - and that is just the states. Something like 300000 people in the UK are viewing child sexual exploitation content on the net in the UK at any one time apparently.

Xvideos and XNXX are similar sites. Seen and used by children as well as images of children appearing.

AIBU to think all porn and opportunities for sexual exploitation needs to come off the web until adequate laws and much much tighter controls are put in place and more effective sanctions for people viewing illegal content.

YANBU

Ethical porn is possible and if you enjoy porn you should be happy to support that
There is so much sexual abuse and exploitation on these sites, it's horrifying

I agree entirely with you but is mumsnet really the best place to talk about this? It's mainly men and teens that are keeping it going. You need to discuss it on their platforms.

Out of curiosity how do find ethical porn and know it is indeed that?

@VitaminBitch

I agree entirely with you but is mumsnet really the best place to talk about this? It's mainly men and teens that are keeping it going. You need to discuss it on their platforms.

If women made it clear to men and teens that they find it totally unacceptable and that it was going to be blocked on the household wifi, it might make a bit of a difference.

Blocking it on the wifi makes zero difference sorry. It takes 2 minutes to download a vpn to bypass wifi or phone service provider controls.

Your average teen would have no problem with that, instructions are on YouTube.

I agree but I don’t know what the answer is, people who want to view porn online will always find a way regardless. The reason the sites exist is because there is so much demand for it. It’s grim but that’s the world we live in. Yes, it should be more regulated but I really can’t see things changing much. Most men and a fair few women watch porn, it’s not going to change.

The internet is an open platform and Pornhub is a Canadian company. Regulating it isn't a realistic option unless you want the government to monitor and filter all internet traffic like they do in China.

Did you knwo that this is also a much bigger problem with Facebook, reddit, tik tok and other social media?

I read MasterCard and visa (I think) were going to be withdrawing their use of cards from the site

30 years ago people would have said there was no point in trying to stop people smoking, but the government decided otherwise, and public health has improved as a result.

Something needs to be done about porn. A generation ago men and teens had to make much more effort to get hold of it and that effort put a lot of them off. Now they can see horrific things with minimal effort and especially for the teens it's normalised what used to be regarded as extreme and obscene. Surely it can't be beyond the wit of humanity to tackle this.

There are men on forums ''crying and shaking'' over Pornhub removing these videos, and some blaming it on a 'drama queen'. I think the ''drama queen'' they're referring to is a girl who at 14 was beaten so badly she was unrecognisable, stabbed, raped, and the footage uploaded to PH, which they refused to remove despite her pleading with them No blame for the rapists though, funnily enough. This is all the fault of an underaged girl, the victim of a horrific rape.

What a toxic mentality it creates. These men turn my fucking stomach.

Vile as Pornhub is - and it's vile - there are lots of commentators explaining why these actions won't stop revenge porn or CSE. There are wider issues about being demonetised by credit card or other financial companies and the creep of that that might concern us as citizens.

If an individual gets their ability to conduct online or cashless transactions stopped, the harm doesn't stop with them, it can affect their families.

"I’m going to read a statement out for you,” the manager said. “But I’m not going to be able to answer any of your questions after that.”

He read out:

“We have locked your bank account. We can’t give you any more information. We might be in touch in future with more information. But we don’t know when that might be.”

Could she have her money? No.

But how was she supposed to get home? After all, she lived eight miles outside of Leeds, and now she had no bus fare. Apparently, this was not the bank’s business."

unherd.com/2020/10/how-corporations-can-delete-your-existence/

@vitaminbitch I don't think chatting on male forums is going to make the blindest bit of difference. A difference will come from public awareness, public opinion, government and international action.
I agree with @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g yes something can be done.

@VitaminBitch

I agree entirely with you but is mumsnet really the best place to talk about this? It's mainly men and teens that are keeping it going. You need to discuss it on their platforms.

It's really not. Women also make up a large portion of porn viewing. Last study I read said 1/3 of women view it once a week.

There are lots of important conversations to have about how we can balance the inevitability & importance of porn with the ethics of the industry, the treatment of women and the copyright infringement against smaller producers. Erasing the fact that women enjoy porn doesn't help with that conversation.

@Sexboardsafename

Out of curiosity how do find ethical porn and know it is indeed that?

OnlyFans is a good place to look to start with, or even better Make Love Not Porn which is a socially sourced sex video app filled with normal people having sex. Erika Lust makes ethical porn which is generally regarded to be a high standard.

Basically try to a) pay for it b) buy it from a named producer.

Then we also need to talk about Facebook and anywhere else that has been hosting child abuse images.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions Vile as Pornhub is - and it's vile - there are lots of commentators explaining why these actions won't stop revenge porn or CSE The only way to stop CSE child sexual exploitation online is to get it off the net (same for any kind of exploitation including revenge porn, exploiting trafficked adults) and there are organisations that do this but it isn't enough at the moment because there isn't sufficient international governmental buy in. Can you link the commentators? Because they sound like enablers, what they are saying is wrong.

There are wider issues about being demonetised by credit card or other financial companies and the creep of that that might concern us as citizens visa and mastercard have not withdrawn services from individuals, they have stopped being the payment platform for pornhub. Is your example a real one and if so why did it happen, what were the circumstances?

Obviously the card companies, and surely any banks, are colluding by processing payments. They presumably don't process money to any identified terrorist organisations. What makes this different?
The same goes for platforms hosting work-rounds to dodge controls.

My simple test would be if something is clearly legal it is o.k. to show it in detail. If not, not. That would get rid of the pornography of violence in films, too. If it is truly necessary for viewers to enjoy watching the bad guy running round shooting people it certainly is not necessary to have lovingly filmed close ups of torture. Nor of any other activity which is not unquestionably consensual and legal.

It seems reasonable to have a film involving someone housebreaking, but not to have precise details of how to pick locks.

It could be internationally agreed that for the purpose of filming, it is deemed impossible to consent to harm or pain. Also that it is internationally deemed, for filming purposes, impossible to consent to sexual activity below the age of twenty five, in order to make it difficult to feed child assaulters' appetites.

Ever increasing extremes and wilder shores of porn will merely be appetites that grow by feeding. It is not the case that there is a fixed demand which must be sated.
(Like the endlessly increasing demands of the wilder extremes of some women-hating men, pretending to be women, in order to get access to real women in order to harm them)

Is your example a real one and if so why did it happen, what were the circumstances?
The information is in the link I gave: unherd.com/2020/10/how-corporations-can-delete-your-existence/

You don’t want to mess with the people who make the widgets that undergird the financial system. In 2018, in response to activist pressure, MasterCard began choking off various far-Right and internet Right figures.… Now, in a post-Covid world, where we’re often being told that cash is no longer acceptable, some are also being told that electronic banking is no longer for them. It’s an interesting crossroads.

The likes of Towler might be distasteful. But if that alone is the bar for the arbitrary exercise of power by, say, the PR department of NatWest, then all kinds of people — from Cat Bin Lady down — stand to be unpersoned.

@MissConductUS The internet is an open platform and Pornhub is a Canadian company. Regulating it isn't a realistic option unless you want the government to monitor and filter all internet traffic like they do in China there is a line here and there are laws in the West not allowing certain things to be published online or anywhere else. But it seems the law hasn't caught up with what is happening online. Canada has in fact said that it agrees and is looking at what changes need to be made. But as others have said, and as I said in my OP, this is wider than Pornhub, it is about a huge problem all over the place online which is getting worse and worse.

What do you mean in relation to China? You meant you think they censor everything, including any criticisms of the government? Because there is no comparison if so, I don't think.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions I really don't think that article is relevant to getting CSE off the net though? The visa and mastercard ban is to do with use of that particular site for services, not cutting off bank accounts for individuals trying to access illegal material online?

But selling your body is inherently unethical. Even if it appears to be on your own terms. It might seem less exploitative but it's still a moral and ethical degeneration.

I don't know if erotic fiction or cartoons is better?

I don't know why it didn't show that I was replying quoting LittleGwenyth's post on how to find ethical porn.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

30 years ago people would have said there was no point in trying to stop people smoking, but the government decided otherwise, and public health has improved as a result.

Something needs to be done about porn. A generation ago men and teens had to make much more effort to get hold of it and that effort put a lot of them off. Now they can see horrific things with minimal effort and especially for the teens it's normalised what used to be regarded as extreme and obscene. Surely it can't be beyond the wit of humanity to tackle this.

Agree 100% When I was growing up (80s) even showing penetrative sex in a porno was illegal! Also there is censorship in every area-films, books, TV Why is the internet different?? Time's up on abuse being used as entertainment because "China" FFS

It perhaps cannot be stopped completely but a lot could be done to make it far less accessible than it currently is.

Make it illegal to publish explicit material without robust user age verification (much more than just clicking an "I'm over 18" button or whatever). Make it illegal to publish or distribute explicit material unless you can prove that all participants were over 21 and consenting, both to the activity and to it being published. Require all those involved in the production or distribution to be licensed and regulated. You back up those laws with stiff penalties for anyone found to be in breach and you also make facilitators such as ISPs, web hosting companies and payment processors liable.

Legally and technologically there is a lot that could be done, perhaps not to eradicate it completely but certainly to massively reduce it. All it takes is political will.