To think that not everyone is cut out to be a “business owner”

[Ffwithfu]

I’m probably being unreasonable but run a business that supports small business. Over lockdown I’m sorry to say that I’ve seen so many people that have no fucking clue thinking they can “start a business”.
From those who have no skills, to those who have done no actual research into the market. I’m fed up with the world and his wife thinking they can “run a business.

Approx 1.5 million were excluded from Govt covid support because they didn't meet the criteria, i.e. less than half their income from their self employed profits, etc. so most of their income was from other jobs, pensions, investment income, etc. etc.

But that's not the only reason people were excluded, so you saying 1.5 million people get most of their income from other sources is false. New business owners (people who set up within the last couple of years) also got absolutely nothing, even if they relied 100% on their self-employed income.

I'm self-employed and my business is very successful but I got nothing from the government as I only started up in February. Luckily I managed to work throughout lockdown but I rely completely on my income - I have no other source of money.

There is a third way, which is what a friend of mine did. He put a card up in the Post Office window. Total initial business outlay: 50p a week. It said:

"Local handyman/decorator, reliable, reasonable rates, anything considered"

Businesses require a lot more outlay than 50p per week in the post office. Off the top of my head - insurance (including public liability), suitable vehicle insurance, safe tools (insurance will require them to be safe and PAT tested, for example.

He used the tools he'd already got, and had an estate car anyway.

Not really a third way - it's a mixture of both. His tools/van are his "capital". Rather than having to buy them to start the business, he'd already bought them in the past. But it's still his business "capital" and would usually amount to a few thousand pounds.

I hope that he sorted out proper business insurance for his van, including the risk of theft of his tools etc from it (many people get caught out and aren't insured which they only find out after their tools have been nicked!).

*Depends if they actually listen with what their "advisors" tell them to do and then actually do it"

In my personal experience, they don't. They engage a freelance accounts/finance person (someone like me) and then disregard all the advice they are given.

[quote Ffwithfu]@tinselfest well no that shouldn’t be the total outlay. On top of that there’s public liability insurance, PAT testing of his tools etc.
Am sure your friend is responsible- but this is exactly the sort of thing I mean.[/quote]
Patronising much?

With all due respect, this was over 30 years ago, and to start with all he did was paint the wall in an elderly neighbour's lounge for her. Then he cut somebody's grass for them. Then a landlord friend said that they had a rental property which needed cleaning and decorating before the new tenant moved in, so he did that. Suddenly that side took off big time. He took out insurance early on, and most of the properties he was working in had the electricity cut off anyway.

It all went on from there, and he's still doing it, although these days he tends to just quote for jobs and get sub-contractors in to do the actual work.

Too many condescending twats on this thread - I've worked in finance consultance for some years and was originally in support of the OP, but after some of these replies, you can forget it.

I have run my own business for 11 yrs and can honestly say that all the gripes I had about being employed, I would take them all back in an instant. I long to be employed again despite my business still going strong.
I dont think the ops makes those who aren't cut out for it stupid and I don't think the poster is biting of the hand that feeds by starting this post.
I sub let part of my business now, the two who run that part have been doing very well for the last 18 months. Previous to this, I had sub let it to someone else who had very grand ideas. They had all the advice and support they needed on tap, quite a lot handed to them on a plate. He packed it in after 3 months stating that it wasn't what he expected to be, took to much of his time up and complained he was constantly stressed.
I also know someone else who lasted 9 months elsewhere, the business was actually doing well but they had underestimated the amount of time and effort that went in to maintain it and got sick of the impact it was having on their family life.
You can be the brightest most skillful worker out there and work very well in an employed capacity, but fail dramatically in a self employed capacity. Its nothing to do with being stupid at all. Some people simply just can't cut the extra crap that being self employed brings and having been there I can understand why, I can completely empathise with it to as those extra bits can be a real burden.

Why on earth do you care?
If they are crap at running a business they won't make any money. Lesson learned.
Honestly not really worth getting cross about 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sorry Tinsel - I didn’t mean to come across as patronising, wasn’t my intention - but is the exact sort of example I’m referring to. A tradesperson should never step foot in a house without public liability insurance - and yet I fear many do.
Obviously this may not have been the case 30 years ago though.

@Badbadbunny @Bella43 Additionally, millions of those "self employed" people are in the gig economy, where they don't run their own business but just do whatever the "employer" tells them and have to follow all their rules, don't get to choose their hours, don't get to choose their work or clients. Uber is a well-known example at the moment, but actually this sort of stuff has been going on for years, and it's getting worse. I used to do some transcription work on that sort of basis, and I didn't make anywhere near the minimum wage. I even once got offered an office admin job on this basis, where they wanted me to do it self employed - I'm glad I said no. More and more of these things appear during recessions. I don't think a lot of people realise just how many people are in this situation.

Companies do this to avoid paying you minimum wage, holiday pay, sick pay or any employment rights at all, basically. So from a legal point of view, all "self employed" really means is that you don't go through PAYE, and that you fill in a tax return each year and pay the tax at the end. It tells you nothing about the levels of autonomy of the worker, it tells you nothing about who is running the show, and it tells you nothing about whether that person is really running a business or not. HMRC don't really seem to care, either, and when I tried to speak up against it many years ago, I got the impression that HMRC were blaming the workers instead of blaming the "employers" for not doing things properly. I wrote to my MP about it and he said it was happening more and more and he was receiving increasing numbers of letters about it.

@tectonicplates I almost accepted a job teaching online. The company, it turned out, had horrible reviews and wages would've been less than minimum wage. I had no idea of this as the job was advertised through an agency. It all sounded above board until I was 'transferred' to the real company. It all went downhill after that. Wages reduced by half, I discovered I'd be self-employed and there were loads of catches. I pulled the plug before I got too far into the recruitment process. They messaged me for ages afterwards though. It scared me if I'm honest.

So you’re talking specifically about rogue tradesmen and unethically/ unlawfully run ‘business’ ventures...?
If that’s the case, they should be shut down.

@WhyDoYouAsk

So you’re talking specifically about rogue tradesmen and unethically/ unlawfully run ‘business’ ventures...? If that’s the case, they should be shut down.

But people can accidentally be "rogue" simply by not doing thorough research as to their legal obligations. They don't need to have set out to be shoddy/criminal.

I.e. they may not understand distance selling regulations/consumer rights - loads of posts on SM about firms refusing to accept returns, refusing to refund return postage etc., which are a clear violation of the customer's legal rights.

They may unwittingly not have the right insurance, i.e. no public liability insurance, no business insurance when using their personal car, no employers liability insurance when engaging staff/subcontractors, etc.

They may have poor grasp of tax laws, so charge VAT when not registered, or claim expenses they're not allowed to against their tax, or not register for VAT when they are legally required to do, or engage workers as self employed when they should be employees.

They may think that they're allowed to sell food made in their own kitchens, without the necessary food standards training/knowledge or with a non compliant food preparation area.

Or they may be trading in a regulated trade without the necessary authorisations. Or be a tradesmen taking "trade waste" away from a customer's premises without the necessary waste transfer licence.

Kazzy
I get what you are saying but if they are as incompetent as in your examples they are rogue, unethically or unlawfully run businesses. The law makes no concession if people say ‘ooh, oops, I didn’t know I had to...’

A lot of things are like that. People do courses at college or uni with little chance of landing the employment they hope it will lead to, people enter marriages that won't last and people start businesses that are likely to fail.

Some will beat the odds, most won't but I can't blame them for trying.