To wonder how the Tories have so successfully managed to package their own incompetence as EU bullying?

[AlexaShutUp]

This government have utterly failed us. BJ assured us that we would get a deal but it is looking increasingly unlikely. Even if we do get one, it will be nothing like as good as the deal that we had while we were in the EU.

This was all entirely predictable. There was never any realistic possibility that we would be able to enjoy all the benefits of EU membership without actually being in it, but somehow, the Tories and the right wing press seem to have done an amazing job of convincing people that the reason that we can't get a deal is because the EU is being mean to us.

I'm really struggling to understand how people have fallen for this so easily. Do they not have the intelligence to realise that the EU will quite rightly promote the interests of its members rather than the interests of the UK? Why on earth would they expect anything different?

I take my hats off to the government PR people, who have done a sterling job of selling an utterly ridiculous perspective on all this, but AIBU to remain incredulous at the gullibility of the British population?

[And yes, I did want to post in AIBU before anyone tells me to fuck off to the Brexit board, and I don't care if you don't like it.]

The same people who think that the EU is acting in some kind of unexpected nefarious way are likely to be

1. People who voted for Brexit in the first place.

1. People who voted for this Tory government.

Tonnes of people see straight through what is going on.

Why start another anti brexit thread, you are already posting on all the others.

Why start another anti brexit thread, you are already posting on all the others.

So by that reasoning if you're on the relationship board you can't start your own thread then?
Everyone has an opinion on brexit and the right to voice it however often they like!

They haven’t managed to successfully package it at all. The only people falling for it are those who voted Brexit then doubled down by voting Tory in December. They need it to be the EUs fault to absolve themselves. Everyone else can see it for what it is.

After we’ve left, they will blame the remainers for not BeLeaving enough. People called all this out straight after the referendum result. There will be a whole list of people to blame they will go through. The finger will never be pointed at themselves or the government.

Most people aren't falling for it. Even people I know who voted brexit think the current government's handling is a shit show.

The only people falling for it fall into the following groups: die hard Tories, UKIPpers, Farage worshippers, people who 'don't do experts' and racists who think it's great that Johnny Foreigner and brown people might have to 'go home'.

Boris Johnson has started moves to centralize more power in the PM's office and limit parliament too in recent weeks. For a group of people who apparently want parliament to be sovereign, there seems to be no shortage complaints when parliament is sovereign and holds the government to account. It rather suggests that some people know very little about our constitution other than soundbites.

Yes. Boris Johnson putting in the proposed trade agreement clauses that violated the already agreed and signed Brexit Withdrawal Bill was a very stupid thing to do. It was only this week that he finally agreed he was being a dick and had those clauses removed from the proposed trade agreement.
All his sneaking illegal clauses in did was delay negotiations and show the EU that he wasn’t negotiating in good faith. Some would say he did it deliberately as sabotage to ensure that we’d end up with no deal. I’m not sure if he is that intelligent.

For an example, it’s like going to a car dealer to buy a new car. You have agreed the trade in or part exchange value of your old car and shaken hands on it. But when you start negotiating the price of a new car, you then suddenly say, hang on I want an extra thousand for my old car or I won’t buy this new car from you. It’s going back on your word and agreement.

I hope that people are right that the majority aren't falling for it. I have been a bit surprised to see quite a few posts in recent days from people who claim to have voted remain, saying that they're shocked or appalled at how "badly" the EU is behaving, so I thought that the propaganda was obviously working. Very happy to be wrong on this, though.

@adawong, I started another thread because I wanted to. You are not required to read it. I don't think you are the guardian of these boards?

To wonder how the Tories have so successfully managed to package their own incompetence as EU bullying?

Because their supporters are as thick as pigshite.

I have been a bit surprised to see quite a few posts in recent days from people who claim to have voted remain, saying that they're shocked or appalled at how "badly" the EU is behaving, so I thought that the propaganda was obviously working
If I'd voted Leave I'd probably lie about voting Remain on mumsnet too as I'd be embarrassed at the mess I'd caused. You can tell they are lying a mile off. They want to have a dig at Remainers without admitting what they've done and so being open to criticism for it. Very obvious.

I never believe people who claim on mumsnet they voted remain but have now changed their mind either. No one is that stupid they'd think "Well I voted to Remain, but actually brexit is going really well and those furriners are meanies so now I want to leave." Not buying it.

No one is that stupid they'd think "Well I voted to Remain, but actually brexit is going really well and those furriners are meanies so now I want to leave." Not buying it.
Especially when quite a lot of key brexit supporters seem to be jumping ship with their businesses and assets too.
I think his week it was announced that Landrover is going to move its production into the EU after someone senior there was hugely positive about how great Brexit is.
Caroline Lucas has recently shared that someone at the NFU is lobbying government to start allowing more pesticides that are currently banned under EU food laws.

Three word phrases. Strong messaging using minimal words. Zero complexity.

"Get Brexit done" though we're not sure what that even means.
"Oven ready deal" but we're not telling you or the EU what the ingredients are.
"Hands Face Space" but don't mention Johnson and co repeatedly rule breaking.
"60 New Hospitals" but it might only be six and we don't know how we're going to pay for it.
"Clap for Carers" and deflect from the lack of PPE and carers dying.

And Brexit Means Brexit (meaningless and brainless)
Strong and Stable (what a joke with the damage brexit has done)