...shrewsbury mat scandal cd have happened to you?

[stovetopespresso]

just watched such a moving interview with Rhiannon Davies,whose baby Kate died as a result of bad treatment. aibu to think that it could have been any of us? my midwife didn't turn up for last dc4's planned home birth, I got "we don't think you're in labour" after 4 or 5 frantic calls. dh delivered him.
for ds2's birth I was fed oxytocin to induce then told there was no midwife to deliver him and the one I ended up with panicked and said she hadn't delivered a baby in 20 years and please could I be quieter. agony. all ended fine but for dc4's experience I was shut down and told I had gone in to labour quickly etc (untrue). so this is not rare i think and I feel so lucky. so sad for the heroes who have had to put up with this sub standard treatment. yanabu= women don't get listened to and it's luck if it works out ok. yabu= let's keeps it as is

What they said today about the obsession with "natural" birth struck a chord with me too.

Me too. Dc1 was finally born by emcs 81 hours after my waters went. They made me walk miles around the hospital complex in the dark, fluids pouring down my legs in agony (he was back to back). I kept telling them there was something wrong and was essentially patted on the head and asked if he was my first. Turns out he was stuck and his giant head couldn't be pulled or pushed through my suboptimal pelvis. I had to get fully dilated and have forceps fail before they'd accept that though. I ended up dehydrated, hallucinating, covered in bruises and exhausted...dc1 ended up in Nicu. Was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis after I tried to leave what I was convinced was a doll in nicu and the psychiatrist thought my treatment in labour/delivery played a big part in that.

What really pissed me off was I was told after the fact that they thought my pelvis was crap and I'd never deliver him vaginally. So where was the honest conversation with options? Ideally before I had a fever, no sleep for a few days and was collapsing with every contraction because his head was pushing into my sciatic nerve locking my thighs up. Who knows what choices I'd have made but at least it would have been my decision.

Yes I agree with Rhiannon Davies that there are systematic failures within midwife care.

I was pumped with oxytocin to speed up labour, was told to be quiet when in agony and they told me I wasn’t trying hard enough. In the end during yet another rough internal examination I flipped and lashed out at the midwife. The oxytocin drip ripped out of my hand and there was blood dripping out my hand onto the floor.

Mercifully a doctor walked in and asked what was going on? She gently examined me and said I had to go straight to theatre. DS head was stuck and no pushing in the world was going to get him out.

The next day one of the midwifes who had been present came to visit me on the ward, I didn’t realise how unusual this was at the time- I think she was trying to scope out if I was going to make a complaint.

Very easily could have been a statistic. Gave birth at Telford. Sent home not in labour to have a bath and relax... Baby born less than 5 hours later after 2.5 hours of pushing... When I came back in about 90 minutes afterwards because blood and pain was too much it took the MW at the MLU about 40 minutes to check me. Where she discovered I was now 7cm. Waters went with meconium shortly after and I was transferred up and care improved a lot with decent monitoring but without DH being medically trained (vet so not a stranger to birth) and therefore very good at advocating for me on the phone I'd have been trying (and failing) to push the baby out at home.

2nd was induced, reduced movements and large. Consultant listened and agreed induction easily. Unfortunately staff shortages meant most of my labour was in the 4 bay antenatal ward, visiting kids heard plenty of swearing and without DH to go on a midwife hunt I'd have had waters go all over the bay. Once again DC needed a ventouse as we bogged down at the pushing stage after going from not even possible to break waters to 7cm/spontaneous waters to about 2 hours. The problem was I was assigned the senior MW who had to spend most of the shift leading supervisory visitors (because special measures) around the ward rather than dealing with patients.

Postnatal in MLU was horrendous. Tiny 4 bed ward was dark with zero access to natural light. Stuck in because couldn't pee. Contributed to DC2 being much more jaundiced and me struggling with post natal depression because it was so small (bed basically touching curtains and walls all around)

TLDR - in that trust at that time. Got away with it because had medically trained DH who could trigger reactions from staff by using their buzzwords...

Not Shrewsbury, but awful experience with DD1.
I was telling my community midwife for a couple of weeks that my blood pressure was high for me and I had visual disturbances with headaches. Told my bp wasn’t high enough to worry and the small amount of protein in my urine was ok too.
Wasn’t till I saw a different community midwife who noticed the fundal height measurement hadn’t changed for weeks that I was sent in for a growth scan and diagnoses with pre-eclampsia.
I then saw a different consultant every day of my hospital stay who all had different plans. 2 wanted me induced ASAP. 2 wanted to wait till nearer due date.
I ended up being induced 5 days after admission and nearly died of eclamptic seizure and HELLP syndrome.
DD1 was tiny but healthy. She was in NICU 2 weeks and I was in for a week. If I’d been listened to I’d have been started on medication earlier and induced earlier and wouldn’t have had the seizure.

DD2 was at a different hospital. No pre-eclampsia but they did try to send me home in labour. We lived 45 minutes away by country roads. If we’d gone home, she would have been born at the side of the road as everything progressed so quickly. 1 midwife actually told me I should have had a home birth planned!

Never ever again. We were lucky we all came through it.

It all comes down to not having enough well trained, empathetic midwives.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

What they said today about the obsession with "natural" birth struck a chord with me too.

Me too. Dc1 was finally born by emcs 81 hours after my waters went. They made me walk miles around the hospital complex in the dark, fluids pouring down my legs in agony (he was back to back). I kept telling them there was something wrong and was essentially patted on the head and asked if he was my first. Turns out he was stuck and his giant head couldn't be pulled or pushed through my suboptimal pelvis. I had to get fully dilated and have forceps fail before they'd accept that though. I ended up dehydrated, hallucinating, covered in bruises and exhausted...dc1 ended up in Nicu. Was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis after I tried to leave what I was convinced was a doll in nicu and the psychiatrist thought my treatment in labour/delivery played a big part in that.

What really pissed me off was I was told after the fact that they thought my pelvis was crap and I'd never deliver him vaginally. So where was the honest conversation with options? Ideally before I had a fever, no sleep for a few days and was collapsing with every contraction because his head was pushing into my sciatic nerve locking my thighs up. Who knows what choices I'd have made but at least it would have been my decision.

My sister was told the same about her pelvis after they'd let her try for a natural birth that ended in an emergency c-section. They knew she probably couldn't give birth naturally but didn't tell her as they wanted her to "try" a natural birth. She asked why and they gave some spiel about it being her first baby and a c-section would limit how many children she could have. Which just wasn't their choice to make, it should have been for her to decide what to do.

Could have been us.

Our Midwife's couldn't spot labour or sepsis. Thick, lazy and cruel.

Perhaps we should all stop being grateful for free childbirth on the NHS, remind those who work in it that we have paid for it and have rights and insist on civilised standards of behaviour and high standards of clinical care. Because as a women we are worth it.

Phrases all women need to learn:

"What is the research based evidence for that opinion"?
"May I be referred to a Dr for a 2nd opinion please?"
"I am concerned that what I have just told you has not been accurately recorded in my notes, therefore I am correcting what you have written"
"What is the name of the Director of Women's and Children's Services please? I wish to run through with them what you have just told me"
"That isn't in my birth plan - explain please or get the person In charge to explain it"
"Did you mean to be so rude"
"I would like a different midwife please"
"If you wish to raise your voice and be rude, leave my house now - I shall call the GP to check us over"

the thing is when you're halfway through labour wearing a backless gown attached to a drip with dh sent home coz outside visiting hours or whatever its really hard to repeat those valid phrases @RosesAndHellebores

Not directly related but I have recently read a book about whistleblowing in the NHS and how whistleblowers are ostracized. It was unbelievable to me how people who are, objectively, awful at their jobs, are protected while those who try and so something about it are vilified. In any job or organisation there should be checks and consequences for people who are found not to be doing their job properly. I'm sure the vast majority of people go into the medical profession to help and care for people and it's so sad how a toxic environment can mean that it is bottom of the list of priorities, and covering up mistakes is seen as more important than learning from them.

This. This in spades.

Yep. Maternity/gyne /post birth care in the nhs is largely shit from what I can gather. Had horrendous experiences with gynaecology. That’s not to say most midwives aren’t fantastic. I believe my life was saved by my super efficient and ‘on it’ midwife who recognised I had sepsis in Labour very early. She said that she was super vigilant having previously worked in the UAE where everything is private and if you fuck up you get sued. But it felt very much like luck that I had her. I think there’s something very wrong within the culture of the nhs where things can go so badly wrong time and time again and it not be addressed.

Indeed @stovetopespresso, but I suspect if such phrases are banged out ante-natally there may be a little more mindfulness during labour.

It's a long story but thankfully DH lost patience with the midwife when I was in labour with DS (he's nearly 26) and after the third bit of claptrap strode across the room opened the door and bellowed "I want a Dr in here right now". The head midwife appeared, took one look and hit the red button. All hell then broke loose. DS was born quickly but not before they cut the cord when he was still inside - too far out for a section. He was completely blue and took a long time to resuscitate. The room was very quiet. He was fine after a night in SCBU but it was luck!

There's a lot more I could say but need to gather strength. It has never left me. Thank God for DH. They. Were. Not. Busy. It was 2am Christmas morning and I was the only woman in labour. And they yakked and giggled. I remember a midwife yelled at me because I had rumpled the mattress protector sheet thing and got blood on the sheet.

I was turned away by midwives when felt something was seriously wrong. DM drove me to the next closest hospital (shameless shout out to Frimley Park,Surrey) where I was told I had severe preeclampsia and had to stay in the consultation room while they hurriedly arranged a ECS. I was in hospital for a long time and I nearly lost DS, but will forever be in debt to those staff at Frimley

@SilverLiningSearching

Yes I agree with Rhiannon Davies that there are systematic failures within midwife care.

I was pumped with oxytocin to speed up labour, was told to be quiet when in agony and they told me I wasn’t trying hard enough. In the end during yet another rough internal examination I flipped and lashed out at the midwife. The oxytocin drip ripped out of my hand and there was blood dripping out my hand onto the floor.

Mercifully a doctor walked in and asked what was going on? She gently examined me and said I had to go straight to theatre. DS head was stuck and no pushing in the world was going to get him out.

The next day one of the midwifes who had been present came to visit me on the ward, I didn’t realise how unusual this was at the time- I think she was trying to scope out if I was going to make a complaint.

A consultant came to have a chat with me after my birth, like you I didn't realise that she was also scoping out whether I would complain.

I had had to wait hours for an epidural and when the anaesthetist arrived he was clearly agitated and was talking a lot about his previous case. He put the needle in my spine and though I am hazy about what happened I remember I jolted very badly and everyone went very quiet.

I deeply regret not having a caesarean for both my children but especially my first. Huge baby, laboured for a weekend, forceps delivery in theatre. Problems with double incontinence resolved a year or so after the birth but are coming back now that I get older.

I wish to god I hadn't swallowed the natural birth is best rhetoric I had got from the NCT. I was very very lucky that DC wasn't damaged as well as me.

It could very easily have been us too. With DS the care in labour and after care we received were diabolical, pure luck that we both survived unscathed. With DD the first hospital was horrendous when I had major issues during pregnancy. The second hospital, which was the regional centre for the care I actually needed was amazing and is the only reason we have DD today.

In both cases the issue seemed to be that I wasn't listened to. Any concerns or issues I raised were deemed to be irrelevant or that I was being a paranoid woman. I was spoken down to by doctors and midwives, roundly patronised and ignored.

I am an articulate, professional, older woman and am not afraid to politely speak my mind. I have never felt so powerless and helpless as I did when having my children. My heart really does go out to the families who suffered at Shrewsbury, it could have been any of us.

I work in maternity and it is terrifying at present.

Seriously short staffed on a busy, high risk unit.

I left in summer and got a job in community. I adore seeing my women but it is so so busy, and again, very short staffed.

Continuity is supposed to be coming in but the midwife to women ratio just won't work at present imo. A lot won't want nor be able to do the on calls so are actively looking at other jobs, leaving us even shorter staffed.

It is not sustainable as it is at present. Women and babies are at risk and it's getting worse.

I gave birth at SaTH and nearly died in childbirth this year. The review goes up to 2019 and was ongoing when I gave birth and yet the issues are incredibly familiar, including lack of compassion, injudicious use of oxytocin, allowing long labour, avoiding section. I have ptsd and had PND in the early days. I don't remember meeting my DC. I was sedated until the following day and under GA during the eventual section. When I met them I was so dosed up on morphine I don't recall.

My DC was ok although had some injuries to the head as they were stuck in the pelvis, so had to be yanked back into the uterus while I was knocked out under the GA crash section that eventually resulted. I was v poorly and had significant complications including multiple blood transfusions.

I wonder if lessons will be learned? But what are the consequences anyway? Not sure about that part.

From my experience I feel that a lot of this stems from turning midwifery into a profession that is perceived to be almost on a par with medicine. Midwives are not medics, they do not have the same academic and training background, yet they are making life and death decisions about women and babies.

I still find it astounding that you can have a midwife led maternity unit miles from a consultant lead unit, so if things go wrong you have to pray that you'll be ok by the time you are blue lighted to the nearest unit - and how traumatic that must be in the throes of labour. There is very little that midwives can do in terms of intervention.

During my first pregnancy I was pushed into using the local midwifery unit and naively thought this would be ok and couldn't understand why mother was freaking out a bit about this. As it turns out I ended up at the consultant unit due to high blood pressure and thank god I did as I ended up having an emergency CS. Which is another story.

But I will never forget going to the MW led unit one night near to the birth as I had a small bleed and feeling extremely anxious and vulnerable. The very young MW lectured me(in front of my DH) about how men had medicalised childbirth and how going to the large hospital to give birth was a bad idea as the presence of doctors would result in a very traumatic labour. I just sat there, but if I had my time again !!

But my point is that in essentially replacing doctors with midwives, it seems that MW have a massive chip on their shoulders about intervention and that childbirth is the most natural thing in the world. It is, but it is highly risky for mother and child which is why in the past when we didn't have any intervention so many died in labour and continue to do so in the developing world where people do not have access to proper healthcare.

Which is why I think MW push drug free natural labour to justify their position and existence. I would think that in most other developed nations doctors are responsible for and manage labour from the very beginning.

I've had three at Shrewsbury. Two ELCS after a very traumatic experience with DC1.

To cut a long story short I had an induced labour which then progressed very quickly, long pushing stage, shoulder dystocia, failed ventouse and then forceps. My husband vividly remembers the doctor saying to the midwife that she should have been called a long time before and this baby should have been out ages ago.

He took a while to breathe and was battered and bruised. Feeding became tricky as he would fall asleep within seconds. We stayed in for almost a week until he was well enough to leave.

Staff were mixed. Some were kind, patient and lovely. I do however, recall one midwife walking off and and saying to her colleague 'what's her problem?' about me. I was tired, emotional and barely sleeping. I was instructed to have a three hourly routine that involved attempting to feed baby, topping up with bottled expressed milk, general baby care, expressing milk using a double pump machine, try to squeeze some sleep in amongst all the snoring women and crying babies. I think I'd asked her a question and her lack of compassion sticks with me today.

In hindsight, 13 years later, I feel so lucky to have our healthy son. We could have been one of these statistics and I wish I could tell them that our case was a nearmiss. We had a debrief and my mum feels they tried to cover up everything they did wrong. I was pathetically grateful at the time and realise now that my mental health has been impacted, even now. I suspect I had PND and I am more anxious than I ever used to be but I'm good at hiding it. I also feel that there was a reluctance to get the doctors in and a drive for 'natural' birth.

I didn’t and won’t watch it as it will be too upsetting for me. I’ve had a baby die neonatally and it pushed me into finding support and friends amongst other bereaved parents and the medical care (and medical negligence) some receive is shocking. It’s not a one off. We have a huge number of stillbirths and neonatal deaths in the U.K. and often the cause is preventable (because the cord or placenta are behind the baby dying, rather than anything wrong with the baby). It’s beyond unacceptable. It’s very true that the day you are born is one of the most dangerous of your life.

@1FootInTheRave may I please ask for clarification. Do you mean the women whose care you are responsible for? I can't help but balk a little at the phrase "my women" which infers possession rather than a professional stakeholder relationship. It just feels a little disrespectful and reductive and I hope you may reflect and consider the levels of disempowerment many women have felt in childbirth and ensure they are at all times regarded as individuals in their own right.

Honestly, reading about it, I’m so glad I’ve had my babies and they’re ok. Both were planned c section and a bit premature. I just feel lucky that they’re ok, it really could have been any of us. It’s so so sad.

I had my DCs there and really had to insist on strep B testing (although that was a national issue, not sure if it still is). I was positive and am so glad they were obliged to offer me CL care. If I hadn't been aware through my own reading I could have been in the same position as the parents in the interview.

Yeah, just lazy typing rather than feeling of ownership. Similar to typing my team rather than the team of women I work with.

I absolutely treat each and every one of them as individuals and plan care jointly and individually.

I guess I do feel a bit protective of them in some respects. Many of them want to see me and only me as I know their histories etc.

Maternity needs a huge overhaul imo, including a huge increase in staffing numbers and a look into care ratios.

My colleague had a difficult birth last year. She was very clear that she did not want to be induced, and had agreed with her consultant that she was for a section if natural labour did not work out.
Once she was overdue and knackered, she was persuaded into induction, which didn't work, clinical signs ignored and she ended up with an emergency section to save baby.
Baby and mum are fine, but I am really annoyed in her behalf that her wishes were over-ridden. Yes, she consented to induction, but she was exhausted and had been in no fit state to consent, and certainly not to override her written and signed medical notes.
This obviously does not compare to loss of life or serious injury, but it is an example of ignoring women's wishes.
I know of two women at the same hospital who were left in a bath (stuck and unable to get out, too far from nurses station to be heard when shouting for help) for hours without being checked on and with the emergency buzzer out of reach. Both nearly lost their babies. one was found by a cleaner who came in to clean the bath and was horrified to find the bathroom occupied by a hysterical woman trying to deliver her own baby except baby was stuck.
So yes, I believe this could happen anywhere within the UK.