To ask if you do long multiplication/division regularly?

[BoyTree]

Please settle a debate for me!

Older son is doing long multiplication and it came up that it would have been more important to know the formal 'method' to complete the sum by hand/brain when calculators weren't so ubiquitous. He asked who would still be doing it by hand now and I was stumped!

I can't think of anyone who would routinely do long multiplication using the column method as part of their job, but felt sure I was probably overlooking some vital role. Does anyone here use it or know of a job where this skill would be vital?

Sadly I am having long division sums set for me by 7 year old GS most days atm so Yes, I do them ( reluctantly as they're so blooming hard!)
He then double checks me on his calculator

@Jux

I use if often just being alive.... I did quite a lot working out the capacity of our pond and then how much medicine I should drop in there to deal with a sick fish. It was fun.

Anyone in my family will ask me to do sums - balancing books, planning disposition of furniture, all sorts.

I have a little spreadsheet regarding COVID, another about daytime temperatures since about 1870 I think (no official records back then), a few spreadsheets about wool.......

When stuck in horrendous traffic on the M25 for hours, my friend and I worked out (approximately) how much shorter a trip around the whole M25 would be if you stuck to the offside lane rather than the nearside one.

It was a very rough estimate, because we had to guess the width of the lanes, didn't know how many there were on different sections, and the M25 isn't actually a circle, but I think the difference was iro 3 or 4 miles.

@BarbaraofSeville

I don’t use maths in everyday life. I really don’t

Really? Do you not budget or think about how much your grocery shopping is costing? Whether its worth driving a little further to the cheaper supermarket? How much you need to put by in savings, how much money you should have spare for spending after covering essentials?

Whether its better to sign up to the £40 a month for 2 years mobile phone contract or buy the phone outright for £599 and get a £10 a month sim only for the data service?

How much you need to change the recipe by because you need to use a smaller cake tin or feed an extra person?

How much paint you need to buy to paint a room when the coverage is X m2 per litre and your room is 4 m x 5 m x 2 m tall?

Whether its worth paying for a season ticket compared with paying £Y per visit.

Or whether there would be an overall saving by driving 4 miles each way to fill up at a petrol station where fuel is 4p a litre cheaper.

Why are people so proud of the dumbing down of society?

Alexa can dictate for your why learn to read or spell?

Watch a youtube video rather than read a book.

Etc

The point people are missing is that it's not why we need to learn algebra, long multiplication etc but rather the skills such as thinking skills, problem solving and most importantly cognitive development. People are getting so reliant on technology that thinking skills are being lost.

You brain needs exercised as much as any other part of your body.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

And I'd find out by looking up the measurements online. Or measuring the length of the side I actually cared about in the first place. Relying on someone else to give you the answer. Might not be possible for some items!

If farmer Bob has the means to measure his field and only cares about the diagonal of the field, it would have been faster to measure the 1 diagonal rather than the two sides. Have you ever tried measuring the diagonal of a large area? As long as it is vaguely rectangular it is far easier to measure 2 sides... pace it out etc.

(Was it not clear I was being flippant?) No. It becomes more clear that you haven#t given the topic sufficient thought though [lighthearted etc etc ]

It's pretty easy to measure a diagonal of a field. What you do is start in one corner, use your eyes to look at the other corner and then walk to it whilst holding one of those round spinny measuring things. Or you could just use google maps.

Regardless, farmer bob is just being lazy, measuring 2 sides and then making GCSE students do this work, the prick.

@Saoirse7

Why are people so proud of the dumbing down of society?

Alexa can dictate for your why learn to read or spell?

Watch a youtube video rather than read a book.

Etc

The point people are missing is that it's not why we need to learn algebra, long multiplication etc but rather the skills such as thinking skills, problem solving and most importantly cognitive development. People are getting so reliant on technology that thinking skills are being lost.

You brain needs exercised as much as any other part of your body.

It is, of course useful to have an understanding of the concepts, if nothing else as others have said to be able to guestimate a figure and ensure that the answer you get from a machine is actually the right one.

But things move on and there is nothing wrong with that for most people. I take it you have a washing machine rather than taking your clothes down to the river and giving them a good scrub?

Your body needs exercised, so why not get a workout doing the washing?

Only if I’m helping DC with their homework .

We often have the English v maths debate in our household because I’m an English teacher and DH an engineer. I personally think English is more important because everybody reads and often writes all day long (even if it’s tripe on Facebook). He thinks maths is more important because we all work out percentages, the cost of things, budgeting, basic addition and subtraction.

I barely use maths and I’m useless at it. I definitely haven’t used things such as algebra or Pi since school.

@bruffin

My ds has A at A level maths and has a gold certificate senior maths challenge and never got long division

That’s seriously worrying, because it’s really not hard.

There's probably some joke to be had there about root vegetables...

What do people mean by ling division. I use short division a lot and can mentally use chunking to work out say 850 /45. But i have never written down long division with all the steps below.

Long division. Not ling division

@UrAWizHarry

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree we need to move with the times. However, I think we still need to know the basic concept of things, I mean we use a washing machine but we know it is soaking, adding detergent, washing and spin drying the clothes.

I have no problem using a calculator, I often do. I just mean I think it is important that we still maintain the concrete skills of being able to understand the calculation while benefitting of the convenience from using a calculator.

@chomalungma

What do people mean by ling division. I use short division a lot and can mentally use chunking to work out say 850 /45. But i have never written down long division with all the steps below.

Long division is essentially chunking groups of the divider.

@chomalungma

What do people mean by ling division. I use short division a lot and can mentally use chunking to work out say 850 /45. But i have never written down long division with all the steps below.

Google long division images. It’s just a method of keeping track of your working, generally when using larger numbers. I said above that it’s not difficult. It certainly shouldn’t be for anyone free of learning difficulties. In fact, for those with dyslexic or other processing/memory type difficulties, it’s useful to have a written procedure to organise what they’re doing, and can be learned by rote and practice.

It's pretty easy to measure a diagonal of a field. What you do is start in one corner, use your eyes to look at the other corner and then walk to it whilst holding one of those round spinny measuring things. Or you could just use google maps Hills; very large areas; can't see the other corner for some or all of the time; various common topgraphical issues like that!

And have you seen the price of those landmeters!?!?! They are almost as expensive as theodolites!

Google maps? Mmm! Maybe... but not in all places around the UK! I can't even rely on Strava etc to map all of my usual dog walk!

Hills; very large areas; can't see the other corner for some or all of the time; various common topgraphical issues like that!

If farmer Bob needed that length in order to get sufficient wire for a diagonal fence, he'd do better to measure it if there's significant hilliness.

do it in my head - if I need an exact figure I'll check on a spreadsheet, but usually fairly accurate.
(ie generally happy to be aware that something is sixteen and a half - excel might come out with 16.6128 or whatever)

When I trained as an accountant, for some bizarre reason we had to learn and be able to calculate standard deviation for exams. I'm rubbish at algebra, it was torture. BUT - I have a really good understanding of what standard deviation is, that I probably wouldn't by using a spreadsheet or calculator function.

It maybe that in calculating it manually, the school/tutor/curriculum is looking for that deeper level of understanding.

I never think of myself as particularly numerate, but it never fails to astound me how many people can't work out basic maths stuff in their head.

@chomalungma

And if you think it's simple addition and subtraction......

70044 / 78

With an explanation of how you worked out each step

Please

78 goes into 700 twice less than 780 - > 8 Into 764 once less than 780-> 9 Into 624... 624 + 78 = 702 so that's twice less than 780, again -> 8

So 898

Never. I'm a doctor. Much safer to use a calculator. All the people saying they can't be bothered to get out a calculator - surely taking your phone out your pocket is quicker than locating a pen and paper?

I can do long multiplication. I can't do long division. It has not hindered me academically or in my career.

That took me far longer to type than do.

I know what long division is i think some people are getting confused with short division and long division

If I have a large dividend and a 2 digit divisor I divide using factors unless the divisor is prime, then I use long division and usually jot a skeleton table. Most of my year 6's do the same. Division with factors is so easy.

Long multiplication is useful and most year 6's grasp it.

Rarely used it since school. Maybe a few times, but can't remember when.

I almost never use a calculator. When I do it's because I'm not sure of my maths and want to check it. I used to get in trouble for doing the sums in my head (even when I got the right answer!) but it's come in handy over the years when working with everything from cash to medicines to chemicals.

Long multiplication is useful and most year 6's grasp it. And those that don't get a good undertsanding of how/why it works get to FE college terrified of maths! Longest years of my teaching career was spent trying to help tearful 16 year olds who had 'failed' math exams on multiple occasions, believed, had been told they couldn't do it. They knew all the shapes, squares, buiding bocks, lines etc, but had no idea what the hell it meant. They felt doomed to fail forever. Watching 6 foot soemthing elite junior rugby players crying over maths was not fun for anyone!

Turns out, after a few years of getting them to write up their methods on a white board, that they concentrated so much on the magic square or whatever, they had no idea what it was supposed to be doing. So couldn't work out what to do with any of the numbers they generated!

Once we worked that out we spent the first week or so of the first term looking at all the variations, got them to choose the one that worked for them and told them to stick with that and always ask if it slid away from them again. We would periodically revisit the methods until they all felt safe with their chosen version.

Most of those hoping to pass a L3 BTEC passed not only Functional Skills but GCSE in the 2 years we had them! But it was a hard slog, their own fear being the hardest barrier to break!