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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Elderly Mum possibly being taken for a ride by builder.

32 replies

bringingonbackthegoodtimes · 10/12/2020 14:26

Quick backstory.
And a warning that this will be long x

We lost dad last year. They had the sort of marriage where he took care of everything and she was a housewife. All finances were in his hands, mum had no knowledge of the ins and outs of the bank account as dad would give her "housekeeping" each week. They lived very comfortably, mum had all she wanted. But was very submissive and put up with a lot.

Mum has sold the large family home to downsize to a bungalow. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and absolutely everyone knew my dad-he was a local face so to speak. She is now very very comfortable.
Mum is strong, savvy and sensible however when a man is in control she reverts to a totally submissive and led persona.

The bungalow needs a lot of modification, she is having a door knocked from her front bedroom into the smaller room behind in order to have a dressing room and en-suite built in there. She will have a new kitchen and new main bathroom as well. There is a current old kitchen extension that will be knocked down and replaced slightly larger and more insulated. The whole bungalow is to be skimmed and redecorated.
She has been quoted £48000 and the builders started the following week.
She hasn't got an itemised or breakdown quote just a whole do this job for this amount type of thing.
Some problems have arisen already and I'm getting a wobbly feeling about it all.

First glitch is that following randomly knocking a hole in the wall to the smaller room (which would then Be divided in half back to front creating two long thin rooms, on on the window side of the original room and one on the other-the door to the en suite (window side) would be mid way down the other long thin room. So one door off the master bedroom into dressing room and a door from there into en-suite.)
So following knocking the hole I go round and it's obvious that the door is too far over and hasn't allowed enough depth for wardrobes goubg Along the long side. This was resolved by him saying he could put a smaller door in to allow more wardrobe space and I did say that this should have all been checked prior to avoid this-he said mum was happy with it before I arrived and I replied that's because she hadn't considered that he hadnt allowed enough space. The entire time my mum is trying to placate the builder and telling me it's all fine and that she will make do, not to worry.
The builder also start musing that he won't be able to put a window in the en-suite despite there currently being one in there atm.

Move forward to the kitchen extention-mum calls me upset to say that she will have to have a conservatory rather than an extension as pipes run under the existing extension and he'd need planning permission and building regs which would get turned down due to the pipes. He suggested they could do a proper extension maybe but it's take months to go through planning and they be on the job longer, she be longer in a mess etc, so naturally she agree with him on the conservatory.
All this is news to mum and I.
I go round and we discuss why this is only be bought up now, why wasn't this considered prior to quoting, why why why. So then ok suddenly he is able to do a proper extension but it will take longer and cost more. 5k more. Which when you don't know more than what is a little useless info!
Which of course I query as this is after all what mum thought she was getting in the first place.
So then I ask if we could have a breakdown of costs/jobs so we can see where the money goes. And he flips.
Says I'm mistrusting, he has a top notch reputation, that I was rude to him yesterday over the wardrobes (I was assertive)
He threatened to leave the job, that he knew I'd be back today causing trouble etc etc-my mum grabbed his hand! And said that I didn't mean it, and that I was only looking out for her. He says he has taken coving down without charging her that he has saved her money on the electrics etc so I repeat that a breakdown would be good for all of us to see just where the savings are so that we can apply the extr else where if needed. He flounces our and mum and I had words but basically she told me to leave it. This guy comes recommended from a trusted friend of my dad, this is just how they work, that trust is so important to their generation and I had undermined him, that it'll all be fine. She called the friend who recommended the builder round after I left to smooth things over. And his word is now gospel and she won't see reason that all I asked for was a breakdown, that the builder shouting at me isn't a good sign etc.
I'm heartbroken that she is so easy to ignore how I was treated (I'd never let anyone speak to her that way) let alone the potential mess she may be getting into financially

I need to impress that I only stepped in due to a tearful phone call from her asking for my help and things went from there.

Ontop of the 48000 mum will have to pay out for the actual kitchen, bathroom and en-suite suites the tiles, tiler and plasterer.

Aibu does this sound dodge?
.

OP posts:
MayDayFightsBack · 10/12/2020 14:56

Yes. But it’s her choice to make. When it all goes tits up don’t step in to sort it out and when she starts complaining when things aren’t going well just change the subject.

ExclamationPerfume · 10/12/2020 14:56

He is taking her for a ride by the sounds of it. We had our original kitchen demolished and a much larger extension done for £15000. She would need planning permission if the extension was to be larger any way. I would get a second opinion.

B1rdIsland3289 · 10/12/2020 15:00

Why didn't she buy a property that needed much less work ?

billy1966 · 10/12/2020 15:01

OP,
Is there any help the aged organisation in the area.
These can be very helpful.
Can you check with you local community police officer for advice.
If you think that your vulnerable elderly mother is being taken advantage of, you should reach out for support.
Asking for a breakdown of costs is very basic.
Keep a not of all that has happened so far while it's fresh in your mind.
Him getting angry at you for trying to help your mum is very worrying.
He threatened to walk off site because he was questioned about costs.
Dodgy.
Flowers

Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 10/12/2020 15:05

I was thinking if that cost included the new kitchen, bathroom etc, ok. But for a small single floor e tension, she is being ripped off. Did she get any other quotes?

It'll be hard to get through to her as she's convinced herself he has her best interests at heart.

I think try one calm and kind attempt to talk to her about it, then if she wants to do it all her way, you'll have to just sit back.

How old is she? Maybe if she is really elderly Age Concern might have some advice as they are big on financial abuse, which this sounds like.

Lilac95 · 10/12/2020 15:05

Jeez! I know someone currently having an extension, pretty much a whole new downstairs for just over £30k all in...he’s taking her for a joke! If I was in you’re position I’d be exactly the same and be making a nuisance of myself until he understood. Could you possibly call another firm for a quote just to see the difference and perhaps use it to persuade your mum?

averylongtimeago · 10/12/2020 15:06

Did I gather that she hadn't got planning permission for the extension?
If it's small you should only need permitted development permission, which is easier to get, but you still have to get it.
You also need building regs- and inspections.
Plus if sewer pipes run under it there are more regulations and she may need "build over" permission from whoever is in charge of mains drainage in her area....

More checking needs doing.

Oh, and as DH is a builder, she absolutely should have an itemised quote. In detail and in writing.

Kit19 · 10/12/2020 15:06

Phone the local Age UK Op and talk to them. I strongly suspect there will be lots of 'unforseen problems' and your mum will end up paying way more than 48000 and this will drag on for months. At best this guy is rude and bullying, at worst he's ripping your mum off for thousands

www.ageuk.org.uk/services/in-your-area/

tyrannosaurustrip · 10/12/2020 15:15

How much has she paid over already? I think you need to find a trusted male family member (sorry) and get them up to speed on the situation and suggest they intervene. Is there someone in the family with some relevant expertise? Is there someone whose opinion she values? Years ago when my parents and I were fighting with me over something I picked the one family member whose opinion I knew they equally valued and asked them to run it by her - I knew she'd be sensible about it and she was, and told them a few home truths.

And I would agree with maybe Age UK or community police to have a chat with the builder. Basically she needs to know that what he's doing is unorthodox, and probably to hear it from someone other than you, and he needs to know his card is marked and people outside the family are watching. As has been said, I'm surprised she wouldn't need planning, she really should have a contract, receipts, make sure he's tax compliant, building regs are in place, etc etc.... You need to make him very aware that he will not get away with anything just by sweet talking your mum. She is in a highly vulnerable position.

DancingWithWillard · 10/12/2020 15:18

I would talk to her and outline all your concerns factually and without emotion, and then just say to her that you will leave her for a day or two to mull it over and if she asks you to leave it alone then you will, but that you will NOT be stepping in if it all goes wrong and you will NOT intervene at any stage. If she has full capacity she has every right to make the decision herself, even if it is an incredibly foolish one. I wouldn't sign myself up for getting all the hassle and the blame without being given any opportunity to help. But then I am a bit of a hard ass when it comes to things like this after experience.

ChocolateCherrybomb · 10/12/2020 15:21

My guess is your father conditioned your mother to bend to his will and was probably good at gaslighting with it.

I say this because of her behaviour when this shifty bastard got shirty. Yes, it's damned shifty to refuse a costs breakdown of any kind, going on to accusing you of poor behaviour as a reason he won't tell you before threatening to leave if you don't do as he says. Smacks of how a wrong-doing man always starts accusing the woman of stuff as a cover up for being guilty as fuck before threatening to walk out.

I don't think you will convince her of anything though, I am sorry to say, too used to giving in as a means to soothing a displeased man.

You can document things to keep as evidence if the shit hits the fan. Some photos of the work, maybe a few videos or record your conversations with them both. See if you can arrange a few quotes for comparison. Think that's all you can do for now.

dallafela · 10/12/2020 15:22

I can't believe anybody would think you shouldn't get involved here. The risk of your mum or this builder being pissed off is well worth it given the large amount of money at stake here and you mum's vulverable position. This guy might not be dodgy, but your request for a breakdown of costs is so completely normal for a big expensive job like this that it's a big red flag that he's reacted as he did, as you well know.

Bellringer · 10/12/2020 15:24

Cancel the work. Report to trading standards as scam
Get three estimates from trusted, reccomended builders.
Daytime TV is full of these tales

LIZS · 10/12/2020 15:25

Are there any drawings? Surely they need to detail materials, pipework, electrics etc as well as doorway. Pipework can remain under the extension and like for like replacement would not necessarily need pp, but buildings regs. If she has paid over money can you check business out with local Trading Standards.

jessycake · 10/12/2020 15:28

Don't worry about upsetting your mum , you might as well upset her now than along the line where he needs more cash , cuts corners etc . Be firm because she will be even more distressed in future if he does con her. get some other estimates from a reputable builder as he may be able to convince her

notapizzaeater · 10/12/2020 15:41

I'd get another builder in to quote just for piece of mind tbh. Is nothing broken down at all ? Is all the work actually in the quote ?

PuffyChuff · 10/12/2020 15:49

Have I misunderstood, there is no contract or plans?
How is she paying him? Is she getting receipts?

JanieBP · 10/12/2020 15:57

DM having work done atm. For all the reasons you have mentioned I have co-ordinated it all and pop round daily. She is ‘In charge’......but the builders know who they’ll be answering to if they screw up. They have been absolutely lovely.

Marieg10 · 10/12/2020 15:58

Get it stopped immediately. He is ripping her off terribly. I have seen it before and £48k for Labour is shocking. I had a huge extension built for that with serious internal remodelling

Ameanstreakamilewide · 10/12/2020 16:06

@B1rdIsland3289

Why didn't she buy a property that needed much less work ?
Helpful.
hennybeans · 10/12/2020 16:14

This builder sounds dodgy and unprofessional. I would get two more builders around to quote and get rid of this guy. Unfortunately builders have very long waiting lists at the moment ( at least where I am), so your DM might have a wait to get the work done. It's a difficult situation but absolutely sounds like he is not doing right by your mum. Sounds like he'll do a shoddy, botched job then run off into the sunset with the money.

WiddlinDiddlin · 10/12/2020 16:23

I think, much as it pains me to say this, you are going to have to find a man that she will respect for some reason or another (relative, someone in the trade or related trade) to talk to your Mum, and these builders or any other builders.

None of this sounds right at all, there should be a list of works to be done, costed out, that price is on the high side even if it included all the materials, for that to be the price WITHOUT materials is fucking outrageous unless her bungalow is the size of Buckingham Palace and located on the fucking moon!

Winniewonka · 10/12/2020 16:30

It's sounds like there will be at least an extra 20K for the bathroom and kitchen. I know it's difficult but could another family member let your Mum know that you only have her best interests in mind.
No honest builder will object to a breakdown of costs. I'm sure you've already done so but look if there's anything about him online.

billy1966 · 10/12/2020 16:49

OP,
Ageuk are definitely worth a call.

Years ago I needed a emergency plumber up the country for an uncle one night.

We were hours away and he needed help.

I rang his local police station and the duty sergeant couldn't have been kinder and gave me a number of a lovely man who was just fantastic.

He ended up fixing a few other things that my uncle had refused up to this to accept help with.

Your mother needs protecting.
If she refuses after you have tried, tgen this is down to her.

Certain types absolutely prey on the elderly through doing work in their homes.

Fuss · 10/12/2020 17:04

This was resolved by him saying he could put a smaller door in

Everything else aside, don't do this. Plan for a future that might involve her needing a wheelchair. A smaller door could make a room inaccessible for her eventually.

Consider carefully what is done now for her long term living.

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