To wonder why people ( especially men) see cleaning as beneath them?

[malificent7]

I work in a hospital...a major part of this involves cleaning your room before the next patient arrives especially now COVID is here.
Often the men baulk at this and the other day I looked around and noticed the men behing the screen in the control room doing " important" things like data input while all the women were doing the equally " important " job of cleaning. Why does this bullshit happen?

This is not the first time I have seen this.

All the cleaners where I work are men.

I’ll be flamed for this but I think most people see cleaning as fairly menial, while accepting that it is something that has to be done. It’s just that men see women as fairly menial, so they have no shame about putting themselves forward for the ‘important’ things. And because people are sexist, men get away with that more often than not.

Sorry: should say ‘too many men’, not ‘men’.

Well I guess they have been brought up to see it as women's work. Unfortunately there are still a lot of men who do.

Most men do not see cleaning or having a tidy, organised home/workspace as something that's very important, in my experience.

Not just in working environments...I know plenty of middle class couples/single people with pretty easy lives who employ cleaners because God forbid they could clean their own home.

I know plenty of middle class couples/single people with pretty easy lives who employ cleaners because God forbid they could clean their own home.

There’s nothing wrong with employing someone to do something you don’t want to do. I hate garden work. I hire someone to do it. I don’t mind cleaning my own home so I do that myself. But some people hate it.

There’s nothing wrong with employing someone to do something you don’t want to do.

Exactly. Weird to suggest that it isn't. I have a cleaner. I have also worked as a cleaner. Do you never pay for any services @formerbabe?

I think it's essentially learned from the environment you grow up in - partly via the roles your parents take and partly through how your parents talk about and behave towards those who have cleaning (and similar) jobs.

I know men who had lovely parents, but the mum did all that stuff and the boy didn't have to lift a finger... surprise surprise those men won't lift a finger in their own homes either. It's not always that they just leave it to the women, thinking its her job, sometimes it's just not on their radar became it never was. The men I know who happily do their fair share grew up getting stuck into the housework and not seeing cleaning work as either a gendered thing or a 'beneath them' thing.

Well, they are providing work and money for someone who needs it, and doesn't find cleaning demeaning.

I agree with you OP about the scenario you describe and similar.

However I have a cleaner because I’m a single Mum working full time and want to spend weekends with my children. If I didn’t I would have to drop to a four day week to achieve the same, and that would be more expensive.

@Europilgrim

There’s nothing wrong with employing someone to do something you don’t want to do.

Exactly. Weird to suggest that it isn't. I have a cleaner. I have also worked as a cleaner. Do you never pay for any services @formerbabe?

I know a woman who lived at home and as,soon as,she left and moved out, employed a cleaner....to clean a one bed flat. She was genuinely overwhelmed at the thought of cleaning her own flat...sorry, I think that's pretty pathetic.

When they are with exh I’ll usually do some sorting out / deck uttering or DIY of some kind.

formerbabe I don’t get why that’s pathetic. Pathetic if she let it become a shit pit, maybe. But it was clean. She also gave someone employment, or contributed to it.

@formerbabe - so you're saying you never pay for any services?

It's not clear from your thread - were the men in the control room also cleaners who try to avoid the cleaning or they have another role that involves data entry?

If they are also cleaners, then they should be doing an equal share of all the tasks. If they're not cleaners, why would you expect them to be cleaning?

You're unreasonable to put the word important in quotes for either job. Both data entry and cleaning are important.

If you're asking the bigger question of why cleaners are mainly women (not necessarily in my experience), one of the reasons is that cleaning jobs often fit in with family life in a way other jobs don't. Given most domestic responsibility still lands on women's shoulders, they are more likely to take those jobs. Basically, it's the patriarchy. In my experience, where a cleaning job is a full-time job, it's a mix of men and women.

[quote Europilgrim]@formerbabe - so you're saying you never pay for any services?[/quote]
I pay for things I can't do myself. Everyone, bar illness or disability, is capable of ordinary household cleaning. No issue with having a cleaner..it's the suggestion from people I know with one that they just couldn't possibly cope with cleaning a one bed flat when they are able bodied, have no kids and an ordinary 9-5.

My cleaner is a man- he’s utterly brilliant.
My husband cleans although division of labour means floors are his job. Hoovering and mopping. He also cleans the litter trays and hoovers up cat litter daily.
We teach all dental students, male and female to clean a dental unit, hope this stays with them after graduation!

I don't think it's about whether you employ a cleaner in your home or your reasons for wanting them - it's more about the attitude towards that cleaner and their role, which can be superior and disrespectful, or a respectful purchasing of a service from an equal. The adult attitudes will trickle down to their children and determine the next generation's attitude.