AIBU to ask you to read this, and then think twice before you make any unnecessary journeys by car?

[ArcheryAnnie]

I'm not talking about those essential trips where you are transporting a wardrobe/tools of the trade/someone with mobility difficulties/fourteen tiny children/etc etc etc. I'm talking about all those local trips where it's just you, and you aren't going far, and walking might add on a bit of time to your chores, but walking or cycling would also avoid one more car on the road for that day.

(I so, so feel for the grieving mother in this story, below. I live on a main road and now that I've learned more about things like this, I really worry about the effect that it's had on my son's lung development when he was smaller.)

Court ruling about nine year old who died of an asthma attack.

"...lawyers for the family presented new evidence to the attorney general that directly linked Ella’s serious form of asthma and her death with the heavy traffic on the South Circular near her home. Her death coincided with one of the worst air pollution surges in her local area."

www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/mother-asthma-death-girl-knew-nothing-toxic-air-ella-kissi-debrah-london?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Yeah, I could walk. It is physically possible. But I may get run over on the way as there are no pavements, no lights and it is about an hour and a half to the nearest larger shop. So whilst I could, and way back in my penniless youth, the era of fewer cars etc, I would have, I don't now.

It isn't efficient to ask individuals to stop using cars. It will take a root and branch re-ordering of town planning to do that. Public transport, cycleways, pathways etc etc.

So, in a year or so, there will be a protected cycleway and footpath to the nearest supermarket. It is possibe that I wll by then own an electric bike, so would be more likely to use it to shop. But in the short term it entirely depends on various charities and local initiatives doing what they want to do. Longer term is up to the government, town planners etc... and given the house bombing going on round here that doesn't look remotely likely!

9,000 more houses being built this side of an access pinch point that already causes 10 mile queues on a daily basis? That isn't people making poor choices, that's panicked planning and destruction of green belt regardless of local infrastructure.

Sometimes NIMBYs have a bloody good point!

Mumsnet moralising at its finest.

The way to reduce pollution from car emissions is to make driving and car ownership so prohibitively expensive that people are forced to think of alternatives. Tony Blair's government tried to price motorists off the road: it didn't have the right effect, people then spent less money on other things.

And now, we're being told not to use public transport, and instead to travel in separate cars, 'cos Covid.

I live in London and have managed perfectly well without a car.

I know it isn't the same elsewhere, so these comments aren't about anyone not in London. But I was surprised about the extent to which people were using their cars for absolutely everything, even when there was no awkward load or complex journey and when there was a reliable and not overcrowded means of public transport

Bizarrely it was my most yoghurt weaving acquaintance who used the SUV the most

I think there must be a great deal of cognitive dissonance going on

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

a lot of people choose where to live or take their kids to school with assumption that they will drive, rather than plan somewhere to live/get their kids educated within active travel distances. If you plan to rely on your car, then no wonder you are reliant on the car ridiculous comment!! Firstly that means everyone living in a city. Second of all, our local authority can issue you a primary school up to 45mins away and a secondary school up to 75mins away. Parents have to work, we aren’t all sahm. If you have to drop you kid off at 8.45 and start work at 9, you don’t have time for a leisurely 45min walk!

Why respond with such bitterness? If you can't, you can't.

I live in a city where many people, including myself, can.

Once you give up the car, choices change. If I couldn't pay the mortgage without a car of course I would get one. But I also have made choices that mean I need a car less. For example I'm looking to move house and have ruled out one area where there are no local shops.

We all know many people could use a car less if they were willing to. But if you genuinely can't, why get so cross?

I have many friends who feign environmental concern whilst driving big cars and taking flights so I agree with @SquirmOfEels

This ridiculous moralising about cars is what has killed our high streets.

@MrsMiaWallis

This ridiculous moralising about cars is what has killed our high streets.

This is complete nonsense. What has killed our high streets is out of town shopping centres with much better parking plus lower costs for businesses.

When I was single I had a rule that I would walk or bike only at weekends (instead of using a car, I walked and biked during the week too, but drove to work). Now, while I do use my car too much, I try and make sure I get three things done if I drive anywhere (like go to post office, pharmacy and visit a friend, rather than just a trip for each separately).
My recollection is that most of my friends seemed to have cars when I was young and living in London. Now my adult stepson tells me few of his friends do as it is more hassle that its worth in London. Ironically he and his wife bought their first car to use during lockdown as they spent it with her parents in the countryside.

It's not just private cars, haulage is a massive problem, diesel buses and taxis, delivery vans, other commercial vehicles.

Our school is in the village, there is a nice A road that runs parallel half a mile away, a newish road to provide access to the multiple businesses (call centres, industrial, warehouses etc) on the outskirts of the village. Because so many people work there or in the next town the new road gets busy and bottlenecks at the roundabout. To avoid this people cut through the village past the school. Meaning walking along the road to get to school is horrible, exhaust fumes, noise, cars whizzing past. These drivers do need to drive, public transport is rubbish down to the industrial estates. But they don't need to use that road, they could use the purpose built road.

Also lorries using A roads instead of motorways. Dh currently working in Manchester and uses Woodhead, invariably ends up stuck behind commercial vehicles as its cheaper and quicker than the motorway. Similar country style roads near us used as cut throughs.

An easy way to reduce town centre congestion is to close these types of roads to commercial vehicles who could use a motorway or non residential roads to get to where they are going to reduce congestion and make local roads access only rather than as routes.

@Mrsfrumble

This is so tragic and bloody terrifying. We live in central London. My daughter has asthma which presents as a continuous cough. When I first raised it with the GP, she (GP) asked if it improved whenever we spent time away from the city (it does) and said in her opinion it is linked to environmental pollution and that she sees so many children affected in the same way.

We don’t have a car. One of the main reasons that we chose to live in London is because it was one of the few places in the UK we could live a full life without one. And I know it’s a controversial view and I’ll get my arse flamed, but far too many people in this city make journeys by car simply they can’t be arsed to consider alternatives, and it’s choking our children.

Whilst I can understand why living in a city is desirable when you don't drive, surely it would be safer for your child for you to move outside of a capital city, to a less polluted place and learn to drive? But a hybrid? I just don't really see how you can put your child at risk by choosing to live in London and blame others.

As others have said, not possible when you live remotely. Plus thanks to the government's idea of duller street lighting because its environmentally friendly, it's a lot harder to see when walking around now and I'm not willing to take the risk of potentially being attacked.

Rather than, yet again, blaming individual people, why don't you blame the government who have been exceedingly slow on doing anything or the businesses causing lots of pollution? Why do we continuously blame individual people on here, when we are a tiny cog in a big machine?

@GammyLeg

That's awful. But you're going to get slammed - MNers are generally very protective over their right to cars, overseas holidays and daily meat meals.

To be fair I think you could substitute 'people' for MNers there.

A lot of people are lazy. We're under 2k from the town centre and my neighbours drive in. It takes longer to park than walk.

There's me walking and carrying bags on each arm for strength and cardio benefits. (I am a bit annoying like this though).

I don't live in a rural area, I live in quite a large town. But the public transport links are terrible, and while I live in a fairly built up area, it's a good half hour to 40 min walk to the nearest shop. I don't have kids but it's similar to the nearest school (which is not on the bus route nearest my house, is he'd to go to town to change buses first). It's an hour to walk into town. I can understand why people would jump into their cars to go to the shop for a pint of milk. There just aren't enough hours in the day!

This is complete nonsense. What has killed our high streets is out of town shopping centres with much better parking plus lower costs for businesses.

Not only better parking, but free parking. Our council after introducing two big shopping centres slightly out of town with free parking then increased the cost of parking in the town centre. And they wonder why no one goes there. Don't think we need sherlock for that one..

This is complete nonsense. What has killed our high streets is out of town shopping centres with much better parking plus lower costs for businesses.

Yes. Much better parking.

Parking in town centres should be plentiful and free. People should be actively encouraged to drive there and park conveniently for free.

Close some of the out of town parks and financially encourage those businesses to return to the high strèet.

Parking in town centres should be plentiful and free. People should be actively encouraged to drive there and park conveniently for free

If they knocked down some of those Debenhams and Acadia shops that are going to be standing empty and replaced them with multistorey car parks that are free or cheap to use it would probably do more to regenerate town centres than anything else that's been tried recently.

Plus thanks to the government's idea of duller street lighting because its environmentally friendly, it's a lot harder to see when walking around now and I'm not willing to take the risk of potentially being attacked

I wish someone would tell our council about 'duller streetlighting', the light outside our bedroom window lights our bedroom up like daylight unless the blackout curtains are properly closed.

I haven’t had a car since the 80s and I live a full life. Single parent of two, decent job, elderly parent, good social life, holidays ... not necessarily all at the same time but I haven’t missed out on anything.

I live in a small city and my daily commute has never been more than 45 minutes. My business trips were n the train like everyone else’s.

Driving is a choice. Only a few decades ago, most households didn’t have cars. The hate on MN for non- drivers is real - see threads on adults who can’t drive. The roads are choked and my neighbours are desperate for places to park their several cars. No sympathy.

We moved to a northern city due to relocation of work in our late fifties. Realising we'd be retiring in a few years we looked at transport links and local amenities. Prior to moving we needed two cars, but living near a tram route we immediately got rid of the larger one. I was able to get to work on public transport. The hospitals are on bus routes, and we have shops and a GP nearby.

Now I always walk locally, and use public transport for very infrequent visits to town. I occasionally drive to the supermarket, and we use the car to visit our family who live a couple of hours away. I think we have reduced our car use since retirement by around 80-90%.

YANBU. But nobody else will actually use their car less because they are too busy/restricted/special. Maybe the diesel/petrol ban will finally bite and force a behaviour change.

When I was a kid I walked/cycled to school on my own from age 7. Nobody will do that now because, oh, the roads are too dangerous with people driving kids to school.

A systemic change is needed and this needs a coherent plant from the government and industries, as well as a bit of time, to put safer alternatives in place and incentivise them.

We live halfway to the outskirts of a small city and the nearest shop is a 20 minute + walk away. The infrastructure needs addressing if this is going to make any measurable difference I think. I can't afford an electric car which would probably be better. We bought a big fridge so we can get enough milk and bread to reduce the need for top ups which probably helps and my husband cycles but I have back problems and like my elderly neighbours there really is only one option.

I do agree about the hatred for non-drivers and I think that's part of the problem. The reason I felt I couldn't live a full life without driving was part of this.

I was trying to expand my non-existent social life, looked into "local groups" only to find what they meant by local were places up to an hours drive away in all directions. Fine, I figured I'd just get busses to the "local" socials. Looked into travelling to these places by bus only to find that the majority of the bus routes stopped by 5pm.

The people in these groups all have cars. Enough people can easily afford to drive for it be seen as expected by many. The only way to level this playing field is decent public transport.

RIP

If they knocked down some of those Debenhams and Acadia shops that are going to be standing empty and replaced them with multistorey car parks that are free or cheap to use it would probably do more to regenerate town centres than anything else that's been tried recently

I totally agree. Council's hatred of cars has shafted the high street.

We live pretty close to the South Circular. We don't have a car and chose our house because it has excellent public transport and amenities - but most of London does. I mean yeah, if you live on the N York moors you need to drive everywhere. I am from an area like that, and you do need a car. You don't in suburban south london. Our next door neighbours have three cars and their 17yo drives everywhere. We have 2 train stations within 5 minutes walk, multiple bus routes, several zip cars available. They have a car EACH. It's ridiculous.

We have full time jobs, 2 kids, multiple drop offs. I've done the sums. It would take longer in a car.

You know who lives on the south circular, and other busy roads in London? A lot of poor people who can't just 'move to the country' as someone suggested.

We don't miss out on anything (well I can live without retail parks). If we really need to we can use a zip car or a taxi, or hire. If it's sat there, you use it. Yes structural change is important, but in the meantime you can contribute to better health today, by walking that journey. What are you going to do while you wait?