To think Westerners shouldn’t be dictating what other countries should or shouldn’t eat?

[Theyearthatneverwas]

apple.news/A8N_rA-cwQlCwbNyIVsSxaA

This has always annoyed me. If you eat beef/chicken etc. what makes you think you can decide what animals should or shouldn’t be considered food? I think such attitudes have colonialism connotations. I am not talking about animal welfare here, just the idea of what and shouldn’t be considered as food.

Sorry by "they" I didn't mean Chinese or just some Chinese. I meant whole world, especially non wester countries. It's nkt even west versus the rest. These things pop out withing Western world too.
That was my fault.

But the differentiation between pets and food animals is not really particularly logical. I have as much issue with the way pigs and chickens are farmed as with dogs.

Well, it is a bit. More than a bit actually.

First there's the general food chain. Carnivores and omnivores both tend towards eating herbivores, because their bodies are designed to break down and process herbivore bodies - especially for example obligate carnivores like cats.

Which is why other carnivores taste wrong to us.

Then you get down to the micro evolution of having chosen to breed animals that are co-socialised with humans - cats, dogs, horses - we have bred characteristics in looks and personality that form a species bond that most people would feel icky about violating.

It's not something people make up because their silly little minds can't cope with the idea of eating Fido. There are two very established reasons that we don't like eating those kinds of animals.

We have bred dogs to trust us and be companions for 1000s of years. Eating them is betraying that trust that we have created.

Depends on the continent. In the Americas, tribes kept dogs both as working dogs for warning of attacks, but also as a food source in winter if hunting was bad. Not every culture has domesticated them to be companions.

Which is why other carnivores taste wrong to us.
How do you know they taste wrong? I’ve eaten shark and it was delicious.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Sorry by "they" I didn't mean Chinese or just some Chinese. I meant whole world, especially non wester countries. It's nkt even west versus the rest. These things pop out withing Western world too. That was my fault.

Didn’t mean to call you out, I just think Chinese activists get lost in this debate, which is kind of sad as they are the driving force of change in China!

Not every culture has domesticated them to be companions

Cultures change. Urban Chinese see dogs as pets, rural Chinese see them as working animals and, in some regions, as a source of food.

No, that's absolutely fine @MangoFeverDream

I think there is a big difference if it is decided within the culture itself, or if it's pushed on by another (even with support of some) like OP meant. There should be clearer coverage of that to show that locals are against. But that wouldn't make such a clickbaity headlines, I guess.

However, when it comes to welfare, there I would agree that we should push.)

Not every culture has domesticated them to be companions

When the dogs are rescued still wearing the collars and tags given to them by their owners because the dogs are stolen family pets I'd say the culture has domesticated them to be companions.

@FOJN

It’s the connotations of this attitude that irks me.

Would you be irked to know I vehemently oppose many cultural practices of other countries, FGM, breast ironing, forced/child marriage to name a few. I don't mind saying so because I'm not afflicted with the racism if low expectations.

I think you missed the OPs point which is that there is to some extent an arbitrary element to what animals are considered companion animals and what aren't. In some places it is ok to eat cows, but not horses, for example, and that is nothing to do with horses being less suitable for eating. Not eating horses is a cultural taboo for reasons that are not intrinsically related to the horse.

You could argue that dogs vs pigs are similar.

If you were against breast ironing but not western equivalents, that would be comparable.

The way the people in the article are talking about eating dog is basically appealing to our ideas of dogs as pets rather than agricultural animals. It's entirely cynical - I'd guess they are against all animal eating but feel this is a way to appeal to people who otherwise wouldn't be against it intrinsically.

I wish it was up to me to dictate what other people can and can't eat!

@majesticallyawkward

Not every culture has domesticated them to be companions

When the dogs are rescued still wearing the collars and tags given to them by their owners because the dogs are stolen family pets I'd say the culture has domesticated them to be companions.

Well yes obviously. But I was not referring to today’s issues surrounding rounding up dogs for market. I was responding to the poster who (incorrectly) said that dogs were originally domesticated thousands of years ago to be companions so eating them is a betrayal of that ancient trust.

I think it depends on what the individual has experienced as culturally “normal”. Coming from an Anglo Celtic background, I definitely couldn’t eat dog. I just couldn’t personally, because I see dogs as pets, very firmly. I do realise that in other cultures, these things are seen differently, and objectively, all things being equal, what is wrong with eating dog? We eat sheep, cows, chickens etc. No one should impose their views on other cultures though.

YANBU

How anyone can object to another culture eating animals such as dogs, I don’t know.

You do realise the only way that law was passed was by the support of the Thai government and people right? They didn’t just suddenly inform everyone they could no longer eat meat and it’s an absolutely massive insult to those people by assuming a couple of white folk up and changed an entire countries mind on eating dogs and imposed their beliefs. People of any culture at all grow and adapt their culture to the modern world and sometimes it’s got absolutely nothing to do with white folks!!

@JustLikeStitch
You are ignoring the pressure that rich western countries can place on governments through avenues such as diplomacy, withholding foreign aid, refusing trade agreements unless strings are attached, economic sanctions and finally, threat of or actual military actions.

How a law gets passed in a poorer country is very rarely solely because it was the will of its government and people.

Of course, it’s not all “white” countries. China has massive influence over many African nations and their laws- especially laws regarding mineral rights and mining operations.

@PlanDeRaccordement and you are ignoring the fact that poorer countries can’t grow and develop socially. I don’t doubt for a second that richer governments do all of that, but you can’t attribute every development in a poorer country to a richer one.

can

As others have mentioned, I think Western newspapers shouldn't erase the work of Southeast Asian people in this and other organizations that have instrumental to changing attitudes in food and that Western readers shouldn't think that their newspapers are telling the whole story on what's going on in other countries.

There is some discussion on Western corporations and governments pressuring less wealthy governments on things like agricultural and labour practices as colonial, normally around exporting food to us, but a handful of Brits & Dutch people working alongside people in Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, South Korea, and surrounding countries to reduce the amount of strays, provide vet care, educate kids on animal care, and fight against dogmeat isn't something I'd put in that category.

Really, I think it's a colonial, patronizing mindset to think they're 'dictating' anything in another country that they have that kind of power over other governments and cultures just because a Western newspaper is only focusing on them. Cultures aren't a monolith, it isn't us v them on opposing sides of ideas. People from different backgrounds can have similar ideas on this and work together.

[quote JustLikeStitch]@PlanDeRaccordement and you are ignoring the fact that poorer countries can’t grow and develop socially. I don’t doubt for a second that richer governments do all of that, but you can’t attribute every development in a poorer country to a richer one.[/quote]
No, I’m not ignoring that poorer countries can grow and develop, I’m just pointing out that quite often “development” or “growth” that goes in a specific direction that a rich country wants is not a coincidence, but rather a result of international pressure tactics.

I am not against the theory of eating dog.I am against stealing peoples pests. I am against over crowding. I am against force feeding. I am for high animal welfare standards. Which is why I look for higher wellfare meat and free range eggs.

I don’t know. I find it difficult. I understand what you’re saying in principle, and I’m vegetarian because the idea of eating any animal really upsets me. I suppose though it’s just that I’m socialised to ignore chicken legs and cow flanks on full display in a supermarket and not dog meat which is why dog meat is a particularly distressing idea. Honestly though the intensive farming with have in Western Europe isn’t much better is it. And dairy farming is very cruel and I have dairy so I suppose I’m hypocritical. As human beings, we really don’t treat animals all that well in general it seems.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@JustLikeStitch
You are ignoring the pressure that rich western countries can place on governments through avenues such as diplomacy, withholding foreign aid, refusing trade agreements unless strings are attached, economic sanctions and finally, threat of or actual military actions.

How a law gets passed in a poorer country is very rarely solely because it was the will of its government and people.[/quote]
Lol Western governments do not give any shits about animal welfare in China. They certainly aren’t going to scupper lucrative deals just because some rural Chinese in Jilin are eating dog hotpot. C’moooooon.

As I said, the real driving force here is the changing tastes (so to speak) of urban Chinese. You’d find it very difficult to operate a dog hotpot restaurant in Beijing, it’s not even legal anymore there.

@BiBabbles I was I had your elegance with words. My badly written attempt didn’t quite get the point across!

@MangoFeverDream I’m talking bigger picture than dogs in China. I’m talking the reality of geo-politics.

So this is an example of how one rich country pressured several poorer countries experiencing a crisis into eating a food they had banned in law as unsafe.

In 2002, there was famine in Southern Africa, specifically Malawi, Mozambique, Zambia and Zimbabwe. They had prohibited the same GMO grains that the EU prohibited as unsafe for human consumption. But the US in sending food aid refused to send nonGMO food. The US could have sent nonGMO food but they thought the GMO laws were nonsense and wanted more markets for their biotech firms. The African governments were put in a position of let their people starve to death, or accept the US GMO grains as food aid. They held out for months, but nonGMO aid from the EU was not enough, thousands were still dying of hunger. And eventually, they were forced to accept the US’ GMO food aid out of desperation, although they were able to require that it be milled before export to prevent transgene contamination with their local varieties of crops.